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AoS Dracothion's tail

Discussion in 'Seraphon Discussion' started by Jbird460, Aug 30, 2017.

  1. Jbird460
    Skink

    Jbird460 Member

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    Our one of our new battilions sounds very over powered. Upon reading i closer im not sure. It states

    "in the hero phase, kuoteq can cast any number of summoning spells that summon saurus units to the battlefield as long as each unit he summons comes from this battilion."

    To me that reads literally he can summon units that are in battilion but not necessarily part of the battilion.
    My confusion comes when looking at units in the firelance that are part of this battilion.

    The way i understand battilions work is when setting up a battilion you place them on the battlefield either individually or as a whole battilion. There is no rulling on if you can summon im a battilion. Also if you summon in the battilion would the 1 unit of knights and the scarvet you could summon first be part of the firelance or would you have to get the full thing out to get the bennfits?

    Also to me it doesn't state that when you deploy your dracothion's tail battilion, units in that battilion can be in your summoning pool and not on the field.

    This leads me to more questions, since you have cast a spell to summon the units, and it is not a ability like the EoTG you can only summon a max that is listed on the spell. So no droping in 40 skinks.

    I have looked on this form for answers and could not find anything, i look in faq and the new handbook nothing. If someone has answers can they point me to where you found it if not what is you interpretion of this battilion. I think i will be a open play only battle which is what mass summoning has been pushed to.
     
  2. KingCheops
    Temple Guard

    KingCheops Active Member

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    That rule is basically AoS version of Deep Strike. Units you select as part of the battalion are held in reserve and on your turn you can call them down to the battlefield as long as you only summon 1 unit of each type per turn. If you have Summoning points set aside then you could also summon a unit the normal way by expending a spell slot and making a dice roll.

    The units you purchase ahead of time and put into the battalion summon in as is. So you can bring in a unit of 40 skinks if you have written "Skinks x40 200 points" on your battalion roster.
     
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  3. Jbird460
    Skink

    Jbird460 Member

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    Where exactly does it state that. AOS is all about specific wording and there is nothing that states that it works that way. I want it to work that way and i know we all want it to. But as the rules, read it doesnt read that way.
     
  4. Joshmunga
    Skink

    Joshmunga New Member

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    I see no other way it could work though. like, would you have to spend points on the units as normal AND spend points on them to be reinforcements?
     
  5. Jbird460
    Skink

    Jbird460 Member

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    Exactly to me this seems like a open Play battalion as the rules are written right now.
     
  6. Tizianolol
    Cold One

    Tizianolol Active Member

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    So summon doesn t count as spell!so you can summon all unit that are part of the battalion
    My question is: if i play firelance(scar vet cold one and 3x5 knights) into dracothion i can deploy first 5 knight and after summon 5 knights and scar vet together? Because i m sure that if you play a battalion you have to deploy it full size!! Thx all:)
     
  7. Jbird460
    Skink

    Jbird460 Member

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    If its not a spell then why does it you can cast an number of summoning spells. Then it alos mentions it can be unbound. If it was a normal ability it wouldn't mention all that and would say you can set units from battalion to the field and not say summon. I hate that the battilion is so vauge.
     
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  8. Tizianolol
    Cold One

    Tizianolol Active Member

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    Ye i think it s vague too. It's important know that things .
    I have interpretate that in this way:
    - battalion says that I can summon unit that are part of battalion( it means drachotion) so I can set up 5 Knights and after summon 2x5 knights and scar vet because they see part of dracothion , and it include firelance battalion. But in not sure! What do you think guys?
     
  9. KingCheops
    Temple Guard

    KingCheops Active Member

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    It's basically like deep striking units in 40k. You place the units you paid for in the summoning pool and then on your turns the Slann is basically a teleport beacon. The only thing they are missing is to say that Saurus units you purchase can be placed in the summoning pool instead of deployed on the board.

    It says that to bring them on the table is to treat it exactly like a summoning spell except that you are summoning the unit listed on your battalion roster, it doesn't cost a spell slot, and that it cannot be dispelled. So it is saying that the Slann is the one bringing them onto the table so the unit needs to be within 15" of the Slann and 9.0001" from the enemy. Since it is a Slann casting a spell you can also use Arcane Vassals.

    It further states that you can only bring a single unit from each warscroll on during a turn. So if you purchase 3 units of 40 saurus warriors and place them all into the summoning pool then you can only bring one on per turn.

    The basic rules for battalions say that the rules for the battalions work even if all the units aren't on the table.

    I'm willing to stand corrected if GW says otherwise but it seems pretty clear to me.
     
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  10. Tozon
    Saurus

    Tozon Active Member

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    This is exactly how I am reading it too.

    But +1 for increased clarity
     
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  11. Tizianolol
    Cold One

    Tizianolol Active Member

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    Thx a lot @KingCheops , i thought i had to deploy all my battalion on table!!:)
     
  12. Aginor
    Skink Chief

    Aginor Well-Known Member

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    I also think they should change that wording.
    In other scrolls they say "instead of setting them up, put them aside" or something.
    The wording of Shadowstrike is absolutely clear.

    I also think that the intent really is to do it like with a Shadowstrike. You summon the units onto the field in the size and configuration that was chosen on your list.
    You do not roll but the range is limited, which basically is the only limitation.
    So my wording for the ability would be something like:

    "Instead of setting up SAURUS units from this Bataillon you can put them aside and say that they are waiting in Azyr.
    In any of your hero phases Kuoteq can summon them onto the battlefield. This works as their respective summoning spells, without a dice roll and without having to spend reinforcement points. The spell always sets up the whole unit, it cannot be unbound, it cannot fail, and it does not count toward the number of spells Kuoteq can cast in that turn.
    However you cannot cast the same spell (summoning a unit from one warscroll) more than once."
     
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  13. KingCheops
    Temple Guard

    KingCheops Active Member

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    Yeah I agree with you it probably should be spelled out more clearly. It would also be nice if the example was something less simple. Not too complicated but something that clearly violates normal summoning rules.
     
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  14. Tizianolol
    Cold One

    Tizianolol Active Member

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    Guys but are you sure that can I deploy a part of firelance battalion and use that summon ability to summon he rest? I have seen a YouTube video where a guy deployed all battalion in the field!
    Maybe it was a normal summon? So I can t deploy only 3x5 Knights and summon a veteran if I have summ points.. I mean , if I pay in my list for a firelance battalion, but I deploy 3x5 Knights and after I summon( normal summon) saurus vet on carno? Can I do that?:)
     
  15. Joshmunga
    Skink

    Joshmunga New Member

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    I feel as though that's alright, especially with this battalion. however, fair warning, I'm not super experienced :p
     
  16. KingCheops
    Temple Guard

    KingCheops Active Member

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    No you can't do that. A Firelance Starhost requires 3 units of Saurus Knights and either a Saurus Scar Vet on Cold One or a Saurus Scar Vet on Carnosaur. You cannot buy FS, 3 units of Knights, and Summoning points. That's not how Battalions or Summoning Points work. You could buy FS, 3 units of Knights, a Scar Vet and then set aside further points for summoning (which are NOT part of the FS battalion) but you CANNOT do what you are describing.

    What this rule does is let you have the flexibility of summoning after GW destroyed the usability of summoning in GHB 2016. Prior to matched play we could summon a billion units and drop them practically anywhere on the table. With the introduction of reserve points in matched play all our flexibility got removed. Dracothion's Tail lets us get that summoning feel back without being strapped to the terrible matched play summoning rules.

    During deployment you can deploy an entire Battalion as 1 unit. The advantage to this is that you possibly finish setting up first and determining turn order. However, you can always set up component units individually if you want. The advantage to that being that you can use "filler" deployments in hope of the enemy putting down a scary unit you want to counter.

    Although I'm not clear on how Dracothion's Tail works if you put units in reserve in regards to deployment order. If I deployed my entire DT as 1 unit but kept 3 sub units in reserve is that 4 deployments?
     
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  17. Tizianolol
    Cold One

    Tizianolol Active Member

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    I think it count as 1 deployment. But not sure!
    Anyway i wanna say with my previous post that with dracothion battalion im Able to deploy 2x5 knights from firelance and " special summon "for battalion special rules scar vet on carno and the last unit of 5 knights! Thats what i hope! Potentially its amazing:)
     
  18. KingCheops
    Temple Guard

    KingCheops Active Member

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    Yeah I think so too but as I said I'm having doubts about it now.

    You are correct. Both of our new super battalions are freaking amazing! Also keep in mind that Arcane Vassals works with Dracothion's Tail. So if you take a Skink Priest of some sort, use the Slann to place him wherever you want and then use him as the summoning point for your Knights and Scar Vet!
     
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  19. RoyalDachshund
    Jungle Swarm

    RoyalDachshund New Member

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    You guys are sure about Dracothion's working like that?

    There is nothing about paying for unit and setting it aside.
    There is nothing about summoning battalions.
    There are no spells for summon battalion or spells that make it possible to summon 40 Saurus Warriors that were already paid.
    Only spells allow you to summon a set number of units.

    Battalion is just a cheap way to get 1 drop with a way to summon units of same type that you already have on the table (in battalion) without any risk of failing to summon
     
  20. Jbird460
    Skink

    Jbird460 Member

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    That is the same way i see it. Aos does not imply rules. they state them the way they are ment to be played. This battilion is made for open play where summoning is free and to make a easy one drop army. It too over powered, a free alpha strike 15 from slann can be buffed to 23 with Astrolith or even more with balewind. With no downside.
     

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