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AoS Help Vs Nighthaunt

Discussion in 'Seraphon Tactics' started by Mokomoko, Apr 22, 2019.

  1. Mokomoko
    Skink

    Mokomoko Member

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    Hi, I’m having trouble battling my brother (who’s a Nighthaunt player). He crushed my Bastiladon with 2 dreadblade harrows and a lord executioner. Any tactics?
     
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  2. LizardWizard
    Skink Chief

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    If you aren't running Skinks then you should consider adding some to your army. They are great at screening off your important units from enemy charges & Deepstrikes.
     
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  3. Canas
    Skink Priest

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    Bastiladon with solar engine or Ark? Any other buffs involved?

    You got the bastiladon with 8 wounds 3+ save, rend immune & mortal wound save of 4+ vs 15 wounds worth of nighthaunt with a 4+ save and rend immune (and the executioner has a ward save as well but of 5+) So the nighthaunt have a slight advantage in terms of effective wounds (24 vs 30 when compared to normal wounds, the bastiladon is significantly more resistant to mortal wounds though, but those don't factor in much here)

    Offensivly the bastiladon has:
    Tail: 3/3+/3+/-1/D3 which should average 1.33 wounds/round of combat after saves
    javalins: 4/5+/4+/-/1 which should average .33 wounds per round of shooting after saves
    Solar engine: 2D6/4+/3+/-1/2 which should average 4.67 wounds per round of shooting after saves
    For a total of 7.67 wounds per turn, effectivly killing one of the three each turn with a siginificant margin
    Or in the case of an Ark of sotek:
    3 targets; each on average gets hit twice, the executioner will save 1/3 of the wounds he suffers of that resulting in a total average of 5.33 mortal wounds per turn of shooting spread out over the three of them.
    For a total of 8.33 wounds per turn, which is higher than the solar engine, but with the ark it'l be more difficult to focus down a specific target, and it's output will drop once one of the three opponent dies. So I'd say the solar engine is the better choice. Admittadly, you might get Lucky with the ark and nearly kill all 3 of them in one round which the solar engine won't pull off :p

    Offensivly the nighthaunt have:

    Executioners axe: 3/3+/3+/-2/1, +2 damage on a unmodified 6 wound roll resulting in: .66 wounds per round of combat after saves
    Dreadblades hooves: 2/4+/5+/-/1 which should average 0.11 wounds per round of combat after saves
    Dreadblades swords: 3/3+/3+/-1/2 on the charge, let's stick with this variant as it is the best case scenario fo per dreadblader the nighthaunt: which should average 0.89 wounds per round of combat after saves per dreadblade
    For a total of 5.33 wounds per turn.

    Taking into account that the bastiladon doesn't degrade and the nighthaunt will be killed one by one and thus their output does "degrade" in a sense the bastiladon has a significant advantage. But without any other external factors it remains a fairly close call and will probably depend on luck & whoever happens to get to go first.

    As for general advice:
    - Take the solar engine (if this specific situation is all you care for) it'l allow you to focus them down one at a time better, plus the added range means you can probably get a hit or two in before they reach you, quite likely killing one.
    - Focus them down one at a time, beginning with the dreadblades
    - Try to get a round or two of shooting in before you get into combat. At the very least, make it so that your first round of combat is in your turn so you get at least that round of shooting in first.
    - Try to get some buffs on your bastiladon, even something as minor as mystic shield will already lower the damage he suffers significantly.
    - Deny the dreadblades the charge, they do something like 40% more damage on the charge.
     
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  4. Canas
    Skink Priest

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    Or just throw skinks at the problem.. that usually works even if it isn't particularly inventive :p
     
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  5. Mokomoko
    Skink

    Mokomoko Member

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    Hmm, I do use a solar engine rather than ark of sotek. Shooting wise I’m just usually really unlucky. And how do I deny the dreadblades the charge?
     
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  6. Mokomoko
    Skink

    Mokomoko Member

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    During the battle we were also using Saurus Warriors and glaivewraith stalkers. My sauruses won, but were killed by the dreadblades after they killed my basty. Advice for that?
     
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  7. Mokomoko
    Skink

    Mokomoko Member

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    and of course the Nighthaunts can fly :mad::confused:
     
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  8. LizardWizard
    Skink Chief

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    Nighthaunt are not an easy match up for us in general. Nearly all their units have fly and Ethereal, both of which are strong vs a Bastiladon due to the their ability to jump screens and survive our best shooting.

    If the Nighhaunt player is bringing the Dreadblades on from reserve then you can screen their deployment by denying space for your opponent to place them near your vital units. If they are simply moving up field and charging then you can use LoSaT to continually kite them. With 20 inch range on the Bastiladon you should be able to keep shooting them without getting into combat too often. Don't forget that you can LoSaT out of combat:D
     
  9. Canas
    Skink Priest

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    Put stuff in between them and your bastiladon (e.g. skinks) so they can't actually reach the bastiladon when charging. Do bear in mind that since they can fly you can't leave too large a gap.

    Alternativly, charge them before they can charge you or stay out of range (staying out of range is going to be a pain though, ghosts are fast)

    Unless you have something like 20+ saurus left they're not going to be able to defeat a dreadblade (let alone multiple dreadblades). So anwsering that question is a tad more difficult as it'l involve playing better over-all, not just "how do I make saurus fight of dreadblades".

    The same general advice holds though, deny the charge & try to attack first.

    Teleporting out of combat is going to be pointless if you can't teleport somewhere save though, the dreadblades are more than fast enough to reach you again if you can shoot at them.
     
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  10. LizardWizard
    Skink Chief

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    It is just one of the options available. Also, you can teleport them somewhere safe within your army formations. Or tie them up with other units and teleport the basty away. There are just as many situations where it is effective as there are where it is ineffective.
     
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  11. Canas
    Skink Priest

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    O it can definitly be worthwhile, just felt that pointing out that simply teleporting them out of combat on its own probably isn't going to achieve much as the dreadblades are fast enough that even gambling for a failed charge by sitting at maximum distance isn't likely to pay off (and that's without taking into account any possible bonusses to their rolls they might have)
     
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  12. Mokomoko
    Skink

    Mokomoko Member

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    wait, what’s LoSaT?
     
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  13. LizardWizard
    Skink Chief

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    It is our army's allegiance ability, The Lords of Space and Time. It is found in the General's Handbook 2018.
     
  14. Mokomoko
    Skink

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    how do I teleport them then?
     
  15. LizardWizard
    Skink Chief

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    In your herophase you say that you will use LoSaT on a particular unit. You then roll a d6. On a 1-2 the unit can not move or charge until your next herophase. On a 3-4 you pick the unit up off the table and place it anywhere else on the table more than 9" from enemy units. This unit can not move in the movementphase. And on a 5-6 you may move the unit the same as 3-4, but it can also move in your movementphase as normal.
     
  16. Mokomoko
    Skink

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    Do you need a Slann for this?
     
  17. LizardWizard
    Skink Chief

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    Nope. you just need to have the Seraphon Allegiance. If your Slann is your general then you can take the Great Remember command trait which allows you to use LoSaT twice in your herophase instead of only once while your Slann is alive.

    Most of my victories are from teleporting units onto objectives with LoSaT. Starting to use this ability should improve your game experience.
     
  18. Mokomoko
    Skink

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    OK, thanks!
     
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  19. Canas
    Skink Priest

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    Do keep in mind that teleporting around effectivly does require you to have quite some insight in positional play. If you're relativly new at these kind of games you're going to have some trouble using it effectivly, but don't worry, practise makes perfect :p
     
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  20. paulie99
    Skink

    paulie99 Member

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    As a new player myself, I'm learning that LoSaT is awesome and fun to use. To use it effectively does take skill (one that currently eludes me, but one that I hope to one day master lol). As for Nighthaunt, my youngest son plays them, and they are a tough match up (especially when he drops them from the underworld and makes his 9-10 inch charge with 30 chainrasps on my poor warriors :)).
     
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