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KoW Hordes: Salamanders or Gekkotahs?

Discussion in 'Salamanders Tactics' started by Lord Grok Of Xillaqua, Mar 30, 2016.

  1. Lord Grok Of Xillaqua
    Kroxigor

    Lord Grok Of Xillaqua Well-Known Member

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    I have recently been told by a friend of mine about Kings Of War and it seems to be an interesting game. He told me how you can have "horde" sized units of Salamanders (saurus) and Gekkotahs (skinks) in the game but he couldn't explain to me the tactical or strategic strengths and weaknesses of either choice. Does any one who has played the game have any idea what the difference is between hordes of salamanders and hordes of gekkotahs?
     
  2. Killer Angel
    OldBlood

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    Never played, sorry...
    However, if I have to judge on the few things i know / I've heard, Salamanders (salamander primes) work sufficiently good in a horde; they're your main front line troop, so field them "en masse".
    Gekkotahs, on the other side, don't shine in "horde mode": they're a good support, but you shouldn't make 'em the core of your infantry, being more fragile.

    I hope someone (with more knowledge than me) will give a deeper answer.
     
  3. Crowsfoot
    Slann

    Crowsfoot Guardian of Paints Staff Member

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    Maybe @Itepixcauh will see this and be able to add a bit more detail.
     
  4. Itepixcauh
    Bastiladon

    Itepixcauh Stranded Ghekkotah Staff Member

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    Nice to see more people playing KoW!

    In fact as @Killer Angel said Salamanders and Ghekkotah play a very different role. For starters Salamander Primes (the basic troop of the Salamanders, they are the equivalent of the regular Saurus) are one of the best infantry in the game, and is one that is designed to be played in horde size, let me explain why:

    - Their attack progression is Troop/Reg/Horde - 10/12/25 so imho fielding a Regiment is not worth it, just two attacks more than a troop, better field other kind of regiments (Ancients come to mind quickly)

    - They only hit on +4 so to hurt the enemy fast you need a lot of attacks, Ancients hit on +3 so their 12 attacks are much more efficient and they can't be wavered.

    - The best worst thing about hordes are their footprint, they are so huge that is really difficult to maneuver and most importantly charge without being hindered, that happens when you charge through difficult terrain of obstacles, rendering the charger -1 to hit. Salamander Primes have a rule called Pathfinders, they ignore difficult terrain to all intents and purposes. That is a HUGE advantage in KoW, specially for a unit the size of a Salamander Horde. They can March through difficult terrain, and best of all charge through it. This last thing is important for defensive purposes, salamanders are not fast so I would use them as a huge anvil, they perform as tar pits extremely well, just position them in a way that if the enemy wants to charge you they have to move through difficult terrain, or place them in the edge of a forest or any dificult terrain but leave some of the terrain in front, when the enemy charges you they will be hindered and won't do much damage and then you can countercharge in your turn an start grinding, with the advantage of not being hindered, which is a huge advantage.

    Of course this tactics works best for scenarios like Dominate or Pillage, but if you position your troops well you can make it work every single time. An even if the enemy chooses to avoid it and charge something in the sides of the Primes, you can then charge their flank and deal 50 attacks. Remember that KoW is all about planning and tactics.

    Ghekkotah warriors are a very controversial unit for me, they don't seem very good, they are not pathfinders, they hit on +5 which is rubbish to be honest and their deffense is pathetic. Good thing is they are cheap, not cheap as goblin rabble which should be the equivalent in combat strength and that bothers me. Let me explain:

    Goblin Rabble horde has this stats:

    Unit Size Sp Me Ra De At Ne Pts
    Horde(40) 5 5+ - 4+ 25 19/21 125

    Ghekkotahs for 40 points more have:
    • 1 more Speed
    • 1 LESS Defence
    • Same Nerve
    • Vicious (They re-roll the natural 1s to wound)
    • They are not Yellow-Bellied (When they charge they have to roll a die and if they roll 1 they cannot charge)
    • +5 Attacks
    They are not bad by any means but I think there are better options to spend 165 points, combat wise. The thing is in KoW to be able to field Monsters (and trust me with Salamanders you want them) and heroes yo need to unlock them, works like this:

    HORDE Unlocks:
    • 1 Hero
    • 1 Monster
    • 1 Warmachine
    • 4 Troops or irregular units
    REGIMENT Unlocks:
    • 1 Hero OR 1 Monster OR 1 Warmachine
    • 2 Troops or irregular units
    So what Ghekkotah are really good at is unlocking the juicy options for a lot less that using Salamanders. I play a thematic Ghekkotah army so I use Ghekkotah Hordes to unlock a lot of options for a small amount of points, and a unit with 19/21 Nerve and 30 attacks can be used to hold a unit for a couple of turns or kill some small units, I use them in combination with Hordes of Tyrants (Kroxigors) and they are amazing to hold big hordes on the front and flank with the tyrants or viceversa.

    But Ghekkotah warriors shine when fielded in Regiments, they cost just 100 points, deliver 20 attacks and are quite expendable. Use them to flank units that are being hold by your anvils and watch the enemy stop laughing at them when they do 40 attacks or to capture objectives or hunt units or clear out chaff.

    Hope it helps!

     
  5. Lord Grok Of Xillaqua
    Kroxigor

    Lord Grok Of Xillaqua Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Itepixcauh! This helps a great deal. I have enough models for one of each and with this break down, I have an idea in how to use them both in a game if needed.
     
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  6. Itepixcauh
    Bastiladon

    Itepixcauh Stranded Ghekkotah Staff Member

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    Its a pleasure, If you have any doubts just ask. Also you can read the battle report I posted to see how I used them.
     
  7. Dragon rouge 24
    Jungle Swarm

    Dragon rouge 24 New Member

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    Bonjour, vous pensez quoi des hordes de gekkah avec 40 attaques
     
  8. Itepixcauh
    Bastiladon

    Itepixcauh Stranded Ghekkotah Staff Member

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    I'm sorry but my French is extremely forgotten so I will just reply in English.

    Ghekkotah Warriors Hordes with the errata are AMAZING! I use mine with Brew of Strength with a Mage-Priest with Bane-Chant and they can pretty much kill anything that is defence 4 or less in one go. Another good option is the Hammer of Measured Force.

    Hope that helps!
     
  9. Dragon rouge 24
    Jungle Swarm

    Dragon rouge 24 New Member

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    Oui grand merci
     
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  10. Dragon rouge 24
    Jungle Swarm

    Dragon rouge 24 New Member

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    Et donc quel rôle donné au chasseur ?
     
  11. Rapax
    Skink

    Rapax Member

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    That is absolutely not true. Assuming your bane-chant triggers (75% chance), you deal an average of 12.96 damage. Good enough to kill a regiment of infantry or horde of large infantry, but not a horde of infantry. And, since most large infantry that are commonly used have defense 5 or 6, they stand a pretty good chance of surviving too.

    With the Hammer of Measured Force, you average 7.77 damage, which will only pop small units.

    And if you get hindered or run into a unit with Ensnare, you will do chump change.
     
  12. Rapax
    Skink

    Rapax Member

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    Ne les utilisez pas.
     
  13. Itepixcauh
    Bastiladon

    Itepixcauh Stranded Ghekkotah Staff Member

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    I agree on the fact that I might have exaggerated a bit but 12.96 damage is pretty amazingly good, better than Ancients on Rhinosaurs and on par with Soul Reavers. That for me is impressive to say the least. I just love Hordes of Ghekkotah Warriors, but then again that is just me.
     
  14. Rapax
    Skink

    Rapax Member

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    Yes, it's pretty good damage, but you are using up 300 points of troops to do it. And that's a regiment of Soul Reavers or a horde of Ancients on Rhinosaurs with Blessing of the Gods. Both those units are more survivable than the Ghekkotah, plus they are faster and easier to get into combat due to a narrower frontage.

    It might come down to playstyle. Mine is not compatible with using big infantry hordes as hammers. They get blocked too often for my taste.

    But if they work for you, great.
     
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  15. Itepixcauh
    Bastiladon

    Itepixcauh Stranded Ghekkotah Staff Member

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    Yeah it is a matter of style, best thing about this game is that all lists are not copycats of one another
     

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