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8th Ed. Javelins or blowpipes on skink skirmishers?

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Tactics' started by Ondjage, Sep 15, 2013.

  1. Ondjage
    Razordon

    Ondjage Member

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    Hi guys!

    I am new to this forum and new to the lizardmen, after 10ish years of absence. I was kinda young when I last played the game consistently, (I am 23 now) and I have a few questions regarding ranged attacks.

    As I understand it, you hit on a 4+ with BS 3 (skinks). Then you get -1 for long range (probably), -1 for moving/marching and finally -1 for multiple shots (blowpipes). This leaves me at 7+ to hit, which are 6'es followed by 4+. According to the poisoned attack rules, you don't get the auto-wound on a 7.

    Is this correctly understood for the blowpipes? Would I be better off with the javelins+shields?
     
  2. Wizgamer
    Cold One

    Wizgamer New Member

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    Personally, I work it as.....

    Skink has BS 3. This means.....

    Blowpipe single shot, not moved, short range = 4+
    Blowpipe single shot, not moved, long range = 5+
    Blowpipe single shot, moved, short range = 5+
    Blowpipe single shot, moved, long range = 6+

    Blowpipe double shot, not moved, short range = 5+
    Blowpipe double shot, not moved, long range = 6+
    Blowpipe double shot, moved, short range = 6+
    Blowpipe double shot, moved, long range = 7+

    Javelin, not moved, short range = 4+
    Javelin, not moved, long range = 5+

    Quick to Fire means...

    Javelin, moved, short range = 4+
    Javelin, moved, long range = 5+

    ...so exactly the same for moving as not moving

    Add to the fact the Javelin ALWAYS allows stand and shoot due to Quick to Fire, plus you get the shield which bumps the AS to 5+ and grants a 6+ PS as well.

    NOTE: Remember that you need to add -1 if firing into Skirmishers as well
     
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  3. Dreyer
    Cold One

    Dreyer New Member

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    Javelins are almost always better against other skirmishers, blowpipes are generally better against monsters and similar stuff. It all really depends on how well you play with skirmishers. I would recommend 2 units of each.
     
  4. Ondjage
    Razordon

    Ondjage Member

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    Awesome, thanks for the pointers and cheat-sheet!

    I'll just take javelins on my next unit of skinks skirmishers!
     
  5. To-neh of LaTigra
    Saurus

    To-neh of LaTigra New Member

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    I am sold on the Javelin over the Blowpipe. I find it too difficult to use the double shot and still maintain the poison 6+. I am almost always at Long Range and have to move to get there. I can only get close enough if my opponent ignores the Skinks for a turn (which never happens).

    The Javelins will actually get the same number of HITS as a Blowpipe will get in its ideal situation (i.e. double shooting only needing 6+). It is just that only half of those hits will be poison.

    Example:
    12 skinks (for ease of stats) with Javelins shooting at long range need 5+. That should be 4 hits, 2 of which are 6. So 2 autowounds, 2 that have to still roll to wound.

    12 Skinks with Blowpipes that manange to hit the sweet spot for double shooting by either:
    ---A)not moving (very unlikely),
    OR
    ---B)being in short range (more likely but not by much),
    will also average 4 hits on 6+, which of course autowound

    So the versatility of never having to get as close, plus the added armour/parry save of the shield, AND always being able to Stand & Shoot, make the Javelin option MUCH more reliable then the Blowpipe
     
  6. Lizardmatt
    Troglodon

    Lizardmatt New Member

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    I've repeatedly found that javelins work out better in all cases except 1.
    My opponents seem more afraid blowguns, due to the potential to double tap at point blank.

    So, I'm keeping 1 unit with blowguns, just because of the attention it seems to draw.

    -Matt
     
  7. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    I'd say take javelins and shields if the Skinks are escorting a Skink Priest or Chief, no question. In most other cases javelins and shields are better but if you are taking LOTS of Skirmishers I'd say every third Skirmisher unit should be blowpipes just in case you have some monsters to hunt and for the attention drawing that Lizardmatt said.
     
  8. Moniker
    Kroxigor

    Moniker Member

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    I used to swear by Blowpipes but with their range equalized they definitely have slightly different benefits. I've usually used Blowpipes for their purely ranged potential - shooting monsters and warmachines and things - but at this point I lean more towards a half and half theory.
     
  9. arcabis
    Saurus

    arcabis Member

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    in my last 2 games i used javelin's and i found them more usefull you shoot at 5-6+ and you have the 5+ armor save and the parry the cost you lose for the double shoot is minimoun
     
  10. Hebus
    Saurus

    Hebus Member

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    Javelins have another advantage : they benefit from strength buff provided by magic!
     
  11. CarmineThede
    Jungle Swarm

    CarmineThede New Member

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  12. Lizards of Renown
    Carnasaur

    Lizards of Renown Well-Known Member

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    Also, remember that skirmishes can March AND fire.

    So when you have Skink skirmishers with javelins (Quick to Fire so no penalties for moving and firing) means you only have to worry about long range -1 and cover penalties. With a movement of 6 this is quite nice.

    I always use this combo whenever I can as they become REALLY annoying to the opposing player.

    My favourite moment was a unit of 10 skinks being charged by a Giant, killing him before he arrived and then he fell on some other enemy troops.
     
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  13. airjamy
    Ripperdactil

    airjamy Well-Known Member

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    A question as old as time :p. I am on the javelin train, having a 5+ armor save and a parry against other skirmiskers like shades of pistoliers is pretty big, as are the other things already mentioned. It could be fun to take a few blowpipes though, as anti monster units.
     
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  14. Lizards of Renown
    Carnasaur

    Lizards of Renown Well-Known Member

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    I am definitely on the Javelin train, for the above reasons and also because blowpipes are useful based IMO on situational placement and some luck.

    If you want to do the multiple shot option you automatically have a -1. Long range (another -1) kicks in on anything bigger than 6" and movement (ANOTHER -1) puts it past 6+ to hit which means that the poison rules no longer apply.

    You have to be really, REALLY smart to get within 6" of a monster and have a decent chance of getting some bang for your buck on multiple shots... :(
     

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