so my first run down against the new H-Elves. The HE player is very experienced and I would certainly rank him and his list building as a tough opponent. Not his first game with the new list so he'd had a chance to tweak. Lizardmen Slann Becalming/Mystery/Rumination/BaneHead/Feedback Scroll/BSB/LoreofLife 18 Temple Guard Full Command Sun Standard 2 x 14 Skinks 40 Saurus Full Command Spears Salamander Skink Priest/EOTG Level 2 Upgrade Cupped Hands High Elves Lvl 4 mage Lore of Death(Bjuna/Purple Sun/CaressofLanith/SpiritLeech) Lvl 2 Mage Lore of Shadows(Miasma/Pit)/Feedback scroll BSB Banner of World Dragon(?) (2+ ward against Magic) Some sort of Bow 40 Sea Guard 15 Phoenix Guard 2 Bolt Throwers Phoenix Eagle 5 Dragon Knights --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Report Deployment Left to Right Saurus - EOTG- Temple Guard - Salamander Skinks deployed to the front HE - from my left to right Knights - Phoenix - Phoenix Guard (Lv 2 mage) - Bolt Thrower - Sea Guard (lvl 4 Mage) - Bolt Thrower - Eagle ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- HE1 He started, Phoenix and Knights came down the flank. Knights stopped at a set of ruins midday down the board. Pit of Shades on the skinks after a miasma re Initiative. Bolt throwers opened up and my left-most skinks (would be-phoenix hunters) went down. LM1 Forward march. Positioned my saurus, EOTG and TG so that he could not fly his phoenix over them all. Bear in mind that it's a chariot base and cannot stop within 1 inch of an enemy model. Winds gave me an average number of dice but equally a god number of dispel dice. Slann got Thrones off at the end of the phase but otherwise no other benefits/casualties. HE2 He managed to wrangle his phoenix in between my Saurus and EOTG as I had left half an inch too much space. 2 deaths to the fire trail. Some more Miasma re Initative and a failed attempt to Purple Sun through my lines (got a little nervous). TG deflected a single bolt from one Thrower, the other failing to hit. LM2 After passing all leadership to prevent march-Blocking there was more onwards marching. Right flank skinks and the salamander coming up to woods on the right flank. A disappointing magic phase as everything from the slann got stopped but Thrones was still in play. A chain Lightning from the EOTG wounded the left-most BT. HE3 The Phoenix had gotten left behind as the march moved on so he started stalking my TG. He didn't want to fly over as although he would cause some damage he would be exposed to a rear charge. The eagle flew over the right flanking skinks and sallie to also join the rear. The knights remained behind the ruins on the left flank expecting to get a flank on the saurus when they moved past the ruins in the next turn. The phoenix guard lined up as the anvil to the knights. The SeaGuard maintaining the centre line. A very lucky magic turn for LM as HE was unable to get off much offensive magic. A Miasma to reduce their Initiative followed up by another Pit of Shades. Fortunately I dispelled the latter. The Slann took wound to a Death spell however. The Lvl 2 took a disappointing single wound from Feedback. Shooting saw the skinks on the right flank reduced to 5 members and the Sallie take a wound. LM3 Saurus moved towards the ruins and wheeled to face the knights and the Phoneix Guard thus denying the flank. The EOTG moved into a supporting position ready to charge the PG. (Saurus were 6 wide, the Knights and PG were 5 wide so they would have been showing frontage) Got the skinks back to 5 men. The Slann managed to take the last wound off of one Thrower. The skinks returned the favour by bringing down the other Thrower on the right flank. HE4 An unusually uneventful phase. The saurus were still not within range to charge. The Level 2 mage lost her nerve and left the PG unit. The Level 4 moved to the right-most side of the SeaGuard unit. An attempt to shoot the TG was pitifully poor. Over 30 shots failed to kill no more than 3 guards (thank you SSOC). LM4 Skinks moved in to interpose themselves between the TG and the SeaGuard. As the TG had moved futher forward that the rest of the battle-line they could have been exposed to a flank charge from the Knights if they rolled an incredible number. Accordingly The skinks were arranged so as to prevent the charge from the SeaGuard onto the Temple Guard, instead directing them just shy of the TG's left flank, allowing the TG to wheel to face towards the knights slightly thus preventing that flank charge. Managed to get a buffed Flesh to Stone onto the Saurus to give them T8 ready for the Knight's charge. The Guard were restored to their original number. Dwellers managed to kill 24 SeaGuard and deprived them of their 2+ ward save from the banner as Dwellers does not allow for any saves. The skinks took down 3 SeaGuard. HE5 Knights and PG charged into the saurus as expected. The Phoenix and Eagle that had been stalking the Temple Guard charged into their rear. The magic phase saw a succesful attempt to Miasma the Saurus rendering them 1 Initiative and Weaponskill. A subsequent attempt to take down the priest using a Death spell succeeded. Fortunately the EOTG was lined up for a next turn charge against the Phoenix Guard that were lapping out from the front of the Saurus unit. The Sea Guard downed the Sallie. The Saurus lost 2 of their number to the Knights and the Phoenix guard. Whilst unable to return the treatment the subsequent Steadfast and Cold-Blooded meant they were going no-where. The Temple Guard that were beset to the rear lost 3 of their number, allowing the eagle to move forward and be in contact with the Slann. The Eagle took only one wound in kind however. The TG also held. LM5 The EOTG charged into the Phoenix Guard. The magic phase saw the Guard returned to their original number. The subsequent combat phase saw the Guard and Knights fail to win and then broke. The knights escaped but the PG were caught by the EOTG. The Eagle was dispatched but the Phoenix remained. ------------------------------------------------------------------ The game was called at that point. Victory to Lizardmen. ------------------------------------------------------------------ General Observations about the new High Elves 1. The Banner that provides for a 2+ save against magic is beneficial for direct magic however not so against Dwellers. The old chestnut that was using Dwellers to massacre S3 Elves is still highly effective. 2. The Phoenix unit will prove highly effective against things like our skinks and sallies. It only needs to pass over a single model in the unit to cause damage. It is susceptible to poison shots however and must be manouvered properly in order to make the most of it. By deploying units close together you can prevent any fly-overs as it must be more than 1 inch away from enemy units at the end of its move, and it's on a chariot base. 3. HE magic would appear to be less destructive than it once was. The ability to pick and mix spells is gone which reduces the level of versatility. They are however still capable of bringing a strong magic phase. The level 4 mage for example was boasting a 5+ to cast. Becalming Cogitation proved effective at shutting his magic phase down however and so is highly recommended (as always). 4. Bolt throwers are cheaper but still can't hit much. 5. The change in the HE ASF doesn't appear to have had much impact on this game. They still hit us first and then get re-rolls. T8 is your friend but even without it Saurus can hit hard. Ensure they are supported however. 6. Steadfast is still highly beneficial. Our saurus will continue to stick around so long as they have that benefit. 7. If Purple Sun or Pit had gone off Saurus, as always, would've been trounced. I put this victory down to being able to deny his magic phase effectively through dispel dice management. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I hope this goes some way to alleviate any fears that people have in regards the new HE rules and the way that they play. -Eagle
Re: LM v New High Elves 2000pts - Report and general observa Nice report! Good job to you and your lizards! I found it interesting that the HE player didn't take High Magic with either of his mages, especially seeing that any successful cast adds +1 to ward save (max 3+) of his unit. One question I have is to do with the horde of saurus. Was it worth the extended frontage to get an extra rank of attacks? I usually take 2 units and plonk Gor Rok (or other stubborn character) into the anchor unit.
Re: LM v New High Elves 2000pts - Report and general observa What was the point level of this match? 1500ish? The HE list seems odd to me as your opponent spent 440 points on Core, which is a bit much (unless it was 2000 points in which case it is too little). Phoenix Guard are going to be popping up much more often in HE lists due to ASF re-rolls (though against LM they would have been well served by the Razor Standard). They are the only Special infantry choice that gets to re-roll with the new book. The exclusion of High Magic I can understand, it isn't the be all end all lore for HE, though it is a very good lore. I was a bit surprised that the Lv4 didn't sport the Book of Hoeth though. That being said, the HE list is still formidable. I agree with you about the bolt throwers and not hitting much. BS 4 is just too low for a reliable warmachine (especially compared to cannons and organ guns). Thankfully for us, they can miss and do so frequently. HE magic has taken a nerf due to the loss of so many spectacular magic items. Though I am curious how the Lv4 was casting with a +5 when using Death. The new HE +1 to cast rule is for High Magic only and you didn't list any magic items for him. Did he have a magic item that granted a +1 to cast or did he play his Archmage incorrectly? Congrats on your well earned victory!
Re: LM v New High Elves 2000pts - Report and general observa It was a 2k game (I should've included that above really) and my opponent was pushing the minimum core he could get away with. We had a post game list review however my memory isn't great. I can't recall his reasoning behind not using the book of hoeth although I know he was using an item to give him +1 to cast. In terms of choice of lore I know we had a chat about the various lores and offensively shadow and death, especially since he knows that I run LM, are probably the most effective (IMO - although offensive strength and suitability per list are not the same thing). I think the greastest factor in the way that he used his lvl 4 mage stems from past games however. In previous games he ahs played Teclis. In 9/10 games Teclis got toppled by the BaneHead/Feedback scroll combo. Knowing I had the scroll in my list and a nomination on the lvl 4 re BaneHead I got the impression that my opponent was reluctant to throw a lot of dice into his spells, thus not being able to secure a really strong phase. Equally past antics of bringing down multiple tooled out Keeper of Secrets with 70 point skink units probably influenced the skink hunt that were his early shooting and magic phases in this game. In terms of frontage I find that it is context dependant, for example: - At 10 wide the frontage of a saurus horde is very large. This really helps in positioning, here for example I was trying to prevent a flank charge on my saurus, whilst at the same time trying to prevent my own flanking stegadon from getting beaten to the punch and getting charged itself. The wider frontage and given the positioning of his own units meant that a 10 wide on the advance meant that they were harder to manouver around and get at my other units, at the same time positioning in relation to scenery allowed me to deny a flank. (That's probably a long way of explaning something but I hope you get what I'm trying to explain). - When against multiple enemies 6 wide (and therefore 7 deep) is my preferred approach. Not only do you get a healthy rank bonus but you could prevent steadfast (and gain it). You may also be denying attacks to the enemy if multiple units charged your front and some are out of base contact. In this instance I advanced at 10 wide as it allowed me to deny my opponent options in the movement phase (such as having his phoenix fly over my unit) but by combat I had reformed into 6 wide to gain steadfast and deny attacks from the 2 units that charged my saurus to the front.
Re: LM v New High Elves 2000pts - Report and general observa Ah, 2000 points, that makes much more sense. 440 was for a naked unit of seaguard (no command, no shields). The lore choices were good vs Lizardmen as well, all things considered. Nice job on shutting down Teclis in past games. He isn't as offensively charged now, but putting the fear of the Slann in him is great!
Re: LM v New High Elves 2000pts - Report and general observa You mean "They are the only decent infantry choice that gets to re-roll with the new book". There are Shadow Warriors, but they suck. Sounds reasonable to me!