Discussion in 'Seraphon Tactics' started by LizardWizard, Feb 25, 2019.
@LizardWizard Uhm, I thought Boltspitter + shield would be the go-to for large units?
Normally yes, but these units would be in Shadowstrike. Due to stealthy advance the Javs have a really high chance of being in range. Also, the skinks in this unit are normally charging in the charge phase and then falling back with wary fighter in the combat phase. Just make sure you don't have to choose between swinging with your Rippers and saving your skinks.
@LizardWizard Am I missing something? With two units of Rippers already vying for priority during combat, wouldn't it be better to have the Skinks stay ranged? And not sure if I like the odds on getting into range with Stealthy Advance. Pretty much need a 9 on 2d6, that's only 27.78%.
You also get their movement on your turn. 8" move, plus 8" range means you only need 4+ with Stealthy Advance on many battleplans to be in range to shoot.
Taking the second unit of Rippers lets you place two toads on your first hero phase. Turn one your Shadowstrike Rippers can descend. On following turns you can send your other Rippers in to clean up units who respond to your deepstrike Rippers. I prefer Razordons when going for maximum turn one killage , but in terms of alternatives the second unit of Rippers while slower than Razordons is much more killy.
Ah, I checked battleplans in the CRB. Didn't realize how common 18" no man's land has become with GHB2018.
Thanks again, will compute the input.
If anything else comes up, I'll open another thread to not totally derail this one.
Feel free to ask as many questions here as you want. The goal is to spark conversation and to consolidate my list advice.
@LizardWizard how vital do you think Razordons and the Astrolith bearer are in a shadowstrike list? I'm currently messing around with one that uses 2 or 3 SCE ballistas instead of razordons (simply because they are the models I have).
Also, i've been thinking of running 40/10/10 skinks instead of the typical 10/10/10. It feels like that big first turn move with the 40 block would just really help getting the summoning wheels turning, but I'm not sure. Has your experience made the 10/10/10 feel like enough?
I'm still in Fangs of Sotek mode, so I haven't actually tried shadowstrike since 2.0 dropped. Any help/advice would be appreciated!
The Astrolith Bearer is non essential, especially if you plan to take Celestar Ballista as proud defiance will not impact them.
I like Celestar Ballista a lot, they are over costed compared to Razordons though. They also get less value when you can't SCE deepstrike them. Losing Instinctive Defense from the Razordons will lessen your charge disincentives.
40/10/10 isn't bad for Skinks. I would prefer to run 20/20/10 though. You can put the two 20x units in your battalion for Stealthy Advance. This can allow you to deploy a wide screen without having to depend on LoSaT.
In terms of general advice for Shadowstrike:
Try to buy a turn of two of keeping your opponent in their territory.
Most of the time the real value of my Rippers is that I tie up multiple enemy units with bad pile-in options for my enemy.
If you can fully kill a good target with Rippers while prevent counters attack then take this option.
Be patient with using your Ripperdactyl's descent.
If turn one doesn't look viable then wait and don't waste your drop.
Even with Shadowstrike our army is still a scenario army. Don't forget that your main focus should be on objectives.
Focus fire. We need to overwhelm most enemy units in order to remove them. It is better to cripple one target than to dent three.
Thanks for the advice! Definitely see what you mean about the skinks, 20/20/10 also probably helps out against battleshock.
I was also considering splashing in a knight incantor (while running 2 ballista) for the comet. Have you experimented with him at all? Seems like he would be good for some of those scenarios that require wizards and/or heroes and a guaranteed dispell is never bad.
Knight-Incator with Everblaze Comet is always strong.
Been thinking about a feathered Skink priest in Shadowstrike to be a Betrayers crown missle.
After setup, move him 2D6 and then 14" in movement phase. He should be in range to charge and nuke a horde turn 1 while the Rippers take on their Target.
Thoughts? Better than deploying him with Dracos Tail group and have to make a 9" charge to nuke the horde?
Useful in just the Shadowstrike lists?
I have done it at 1k and it is amazing. I later switched to the Starpriest to have a mage. The Priest missile is great though and catches most people off guard. I mean, since when has a Skink Spriest been scary in AoS. It is also great at pinning the back end of a horde if your are fighting on the other side.
Razordons are already back on the menu, good timing. Picked up the Skink Starpriest and a box of Skinks from my local store, ordered the rest. Skinks sure are a welcome sight for sore eyes kit-wise, so much easier to clean and build compared to Tyranid Termagants and Genestealers.
This brings me to my hopefully last question for now regarding your original 1k Shadowstrike list @LizardWizard, why Boltspitters for the big blob and Javelins for the small unit instead of the other way around? If you want to play agressively with the big unit, wouldn't it be better to run them with Javelins? Or is their range just too limited against armies deploying really defensively deep in their deployment zone?
Each skink is roughly 1" wide. Javalins already have a short range. In a large blob the front one's will need to be dangerously close to the enemy for the skinks in the back to be able to reach their target.
It is a range issue. Like @Canas said their 1" base size makes it difficult to get 40 with Javs in range. However, I do love 20 man Jav skinks in Shadowstrike.
New Generals Handbook on the 22nd. I look forward to rebuilding a bunch of list should there be any drastic changes.
My army arrived yesterday, including four Razordons. The day the leaks dropped... rofl.
For your Shadowstrike list, drop the unit of 40 to 30 and take an Endless Spell for 30 points; or drop them to 20 (with Javs) and take another Starpriest + Endless Spell for 20 points?
The point changes are minor enough, aside from picking a spell lore I don't think you're going to be changing a whole lot for most lists.
Yep, a lot of these list will be relatively unchanged for their function. New Battleplans, Cheaper Saurus (looking at you DT), Changes to LoSaT, and the potential shift in meta will be the biggest factors in retailoring list. Not sure yet if I will start a new thread or keep running off this. I am leaning towards making a thread for each GH.
Not certain yet. I am gonna spend the next two weeks Theory crafting. By Saturday I should have all my Current List updated and in a new Thread.
Then I will start crafting new list. The idea of Slann + Kroak is much more appealing now that LoSaT is automatic. Running this with an Incator and Everblaze could make for a massive mortal Storm.