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KoW Negator's army blog

Discussion in 'Salamanders Army Lists' started by Negator, Nov 9, 2016.

  1. Itepixcauh
    Razordon

    Itepixcauh Well-Known Member

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    There is no better chaff than Beast Packs, you cannot find anything better.

    List looks solid, can't say much really.
     
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  2. Negator
    Saurus

    Negator Member

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    After a mediocre 5 rounds at manticon (2-1-2), i'm going to be trying something new

    Prime Horde w/headstrong
    Ancients on rhinosaurs w/healing brew
    Ancients on rhinosaurs w/pathfinder
    Kaisenor lancer regiment
    3x Ghekkotah warrior troops
    3x Lekelidons
    Herald w/Lute
    Mage w/inspire and weakness
    Flying drake lord w/+1 piercing

    I was either going to try 2x lycans or no lycans at all next. Nimble really is amazing, but ive been wanting to try a fully non allied army for a while after watching my lycans get nuked with no inspiring rerolls time and again. I might swap the 3 ghekko troops for 2 regiments and trade healing brew for blood of kings on the ancients. The regiments would be better targets for Bane chant, and blood of kings virtually guarantees a kill against 20-21 nerve opponents, however the troop footprint would make chaffing much easier on my deployment and movement. Might also go griffon banner on the herald. Really keen on +2 Crushing on primes though....

    At manticon I had a draw and a loss that each hinged on the opponent rolling a 12 on nerve against my primes after sustaining just a couple wounds. Highly irritating, so dwarven ale it is.

    Too often i find myself using the flying drake as area denial rather than straight up combat power. I find him breathing as much as he melees, and im hoping that Heartseeking Chant will let me one shot chaff and light cav, as well as combo up with the lekelidons for bigger targets. Might try boots of levitation too.
     
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  3. Itepixcauh
    Razordon

    Itepixcauh Well-Known Member

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    I would go for Blood of the Old King without hesitation, It's just so good on the Ancients for just 15 points that is ridiculous. Making an average of around 16 wounds against anything plus Brutal is just devastating. You only have it once but being honest there is usually only one time you NEED it. You loose one drop but I think it's worth it. Healing Brew works really well on them too.

    Primes not being Fearless is hard if your opponent is lucky, I've almost forgot what it feels since I use FE as my Battleline but stopping your horde with one or two wounds hurts a lot. Headstrong is not the best rule in the world but can help.

    I'm tempted to try Weakness as well, I am debating between weakness and Soul Drain to give my Mage-Priest something useful to do when everything is in combat but I don't like the fact that you cannot cast Weakness onto a unit that is in combat. That being said with just 6 inches of range and costing so many points i'm not sure Sould Drain is a good option either, might have to think about Bloodboil too.

    I like the rest a lot.
     
  4. Negator
    Saurus

    Negator Member

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    Weakness does look weird not being able to cast into combat.
     
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  5. Negator
    Saurus

    Negator Member

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    Well, i had another change of heart and was inspired by you guys , recent tournaments, and UB practice.

    New list:

    Primes horde
    Primes horde w headstrong
    Lancer regiment
    Lancer regiment
    Corsair troop
    Corsair troop

    Lekelidon
    Lekelidon
    Lekelidon

    Herald w lute
    Flying drake lord w fire oil
    Flying drake lord w +1 piercing

    Ive gotten in one game, and the general theory seems solid. Screen primes and cav with lekelidons and corsairs, which both can kill his chaff and guarantee me the charge, while preventing him from double charging the heavy infantry. Drakes on the flanks further prevent his chaff from controlling the field and themselves dictate enemy movement. Our drakes might be the worst of the bunch but they are the best breath you can get on a flying unit; the magic items only further push that superiority. Lately ive found that ive been breathing more than meleeing anyways. Pierce 1 all but guarantees death to any chaff in the game and SHOULD stick 6 wounds on 4 defense, which puts me in reasonable waiver range for any 14/16 unit (most cav and infantry regiments) and kill range of 10/12 units (semi chaff like wraiths). Fire oil eats gargoyles for breakfast, and are the primary chaff for 3 different armies. Pierce 1 really seems to change the game for breath 16.

    I have very little wiggle room for magic items, and the lute seemed a no brainer. Id like to try helm of the ram on the lancers, but the lute will have to do.
     
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  6. Negator
    Saurus

    Negator Member

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    I'll be playing in some 2150s coming up and haven't decided on the best way to spend the points. I would REALLY like to add a 13th or 14th unit, but not sure I can. Wishlist so far is upgrading lancers to ancients on rhinos, or adding a mage with BC (which requires another regiment for his slot, or swapping a lancer regiment for a horde).

    what else can be done with 150 that complements the force?
     
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  7. Itepixcauh
    Razordon

    Itepixcauh Well-Known Member

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    I like the list a lot, seems fun to play.

    For the use of the extra 150, upgrading a Lancer regiment to a Rhinosaurs Horde seems a good idea, another option is two Ember Sprites regiments, or a Ghekkotah Warriors Regiment and some magic items.

    The Embers seems like a good idea to get some extra drops and maybe useful to kill chaff or capture objectives for a very small amount of points.
     
  8. Negator
    Saurus

    Negator Member

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    you know i dont really like ember sprites because they dont seem to do much at all, but they just might synergize really well with all the other short ranged shooting in the list as well as further keep the lancers and primes protected. Or two troops of unblooded.

    I really want to run the rhinos as my models took alot of work, and they are badass, but i ALSO really want more drops..... hmmmm
     
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  9. Itepixcauh
    Razordon

    Itepixcauh Well-Known Member

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    That is the eternal question, more drops or more punch...
     
  10. Negator
    Saurus

    Negator Member

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    5 round tournament this weekend, off to try this conglomeration of nonsense:

    prime horde w/kevinar's flying hammer
    prime horde
    corsair troop
    corsair troop
    kaisenor lancer regiment w/helm of the ram
    ancients on rhinosaurs w/wine of elvenkind

    lekelidon
    lekelidon
    lekelidon

    herald w/lute
    flying drake w/boots of levitation
    skylord
    skylord w/blade of beastslaying
     
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  11. Rapax
    Skink

    Rapax Member

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    I'm really excited to see how this army fares in a big tournament (I assume it's the Lone Wolf), as well as the other Salamander armies (apparently there are 5 in total), since there really aren't a lot of tournament data on them.

    Break some bones.
     
  12. Negator
    Saurus

    Negator Member

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    Played a practice game last night on universal battle against Nightstalkers. Made some general mistakes, but the new tricks in the list really shone:

    Flying fire drake with boots of levitation avoided charge arcs whilst breathing a stealth unit and later a fast flank threat 30" away late game.

    Skylords avoided charge arcs then locked down a mind screech. I didn't get to flank any actual units with the blade of beastslaying skylord, but i got my points back in locking down said mindscreech and chaffing a unit of butchers in order to flank them next turn.

    Nimble ancients on rhinosaurs maneuvered around and slammed into an individual and overrun into a butcher horde flank.

    Corsairs forgot to vanguard and didn't do much of anything lol, but had they vanguarded would have provided some valuable shooting against fast movers and chaffed properly.

    Lancers had to be deployed near terrain and didn't get to hit anything with TC2.

    Won the game off the back of both skylords and drake moving up a flank and threatening multiple units maneuver lanes. Double skylord instead of a single drake was quite flexible.
     
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  13. Negator
    Saurus

    Negator Member

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    4 rounds into this tournament with 1 win, 1 loss, 2 draws.

    Positively disappointed with the corsairs. i feel like a pair of komodon's however bad, are what my games needed. Seems like an easy swap.

    Lancers have been mediocre. Either they get a hit in and die, or are targets for flying units.

    Skylords are showing promise but are tricky, though i feel a second flying drake would just be better.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2017
  14. Negator
    Saurus

    Negator Member

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    Round 1- Herd- win

    4x stampede
    3x spiritwalker horde
    2x beast pack
    2x harpies
    centaur chief

    New player and tabled him.

    Round 2- Elves- draw

    2x dragons
    dracon horde
    archer horde
    shambler horde
    2x silverbreeze troop
    stormwind regiment
    green lady

    tough game where i dug my heals in making life hard on his dragons while working my way towards his archer/cav units. Beastslayer skylord disordered his dracons setting up for a charge, and got killed the turn after when my drake joined the fray. Poor setup of lekelidons meant that i wasted a turn of shooting, and had to move the next turn; I should have positioned to shoot dragons.

    Round 3- Undead- draw

    3x trolls
    skelli horde
    rev horde
    morgoth
    necro
    2x winged wyrm kings
    wraith regiment

    We jucked up Push rules and put counters on flying stuff. I made a fatal mistake by leaving one of my token bearing units in range instead of moving conservatively. Token on flying 6def morgoth wasnt going to happen (push tokens are supposed to remove fly, nimble but we were both retarded).

    Round 4- Twilight kin- loss

    2x dragon
    2x garg
    4x chariot horde
    3x dragon breath
    2x shadows

    TLDR: got shot off the table with no recourse. Not fast enough, dont shoot enough, not tough enough.

    Round 5- Twilight kin- draw

    2x xbow horde
    2x xbow regiment
    3x heralds of woe
    2x dark avenger on abyssal mount
    3x ballista
    2x blacksoul regiment
    grog mortar
    angkor mortar

    TLDR: got shot off the table, but the terrain was much better. Honestly he rolled hot, and I could have won it easily without a couple nerve rolls from 1 damage plinks in the last turn.

    List final thoughts.

    Corsairs are bad.
    I need more pressure (swap corsairs for komodons; 36" would have forced my opponents hands when their shooting is only 24")
    2x skylords was fun and i'll keep working on it but 2x drakes....
    Primes mostly just existed, seeing very little combat.
    Not done yet with lancers, but nearly.
    Boots of levitation on the drake turned a loss into a draw, and was pretty handy. Not sure yet, but i think it might be just better to run drakes bare as mobile breath platforms and threat projection. 310 is alot for 15/17.
    Nimble on the ancients was very very convenient, but i think i was happier just running a beast pack in front and guaranteeing a frontal charge. On the flip side, they spent alot of time *not* doing anything.

    I really, really wish i put the sparkstone on something stupid. Against all those dragons it would have absolutely wrecked plans.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2017
  15. Negator
    Saurus

    Negator Member

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    New list to consider for TNT (2150)

    Prime horde w/flying hammer
    Prime horde w/griffon banner
    Prime horde w/sparkstone
    Unblooded regiment w/warbow
    Unblooded regiment

    2x Komodon
    3x Lekilidon

    Herald w/boomstick
    2x Flying fire drake lords w/fire oil

    Lots and lots of 5 defense nerve hold the line while shooting picks off problem pieces (and komodons pressure my opponents 24" ranged units) and drakes maneuver into flank positions (or play ring around the rosy while double breathing in concert with the monstrous shooters). My cav have been very hit or miss lately and ive had to play lots of "toe the threat range" games that i just cant win given speed 7/8 cav in a world of speed 10 flyers, so hopefully the sheer nerve and potential drake threats is enough to muscle my way through games.
     
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  16. Negator
    Saurus

    Negator Member

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    Ended up taking this instead and going 4-2

    prime horde w/banner
    prime regiment w/flying hammer
    ancients regiment
    ghekkotah warrior horde
    fire elemental horde w/sparkstone

    3x komodon
    2x lekelidon

    herald w/lute
    2x winged drake lords w/fire oil


    Lesson's learned:

    Komodon's 36" range was pretty handy for forcing people's hands, but definitely feel a touch underpowered.

    Ancient regiments are solid but unremarkable tanks against no CS or CS1. Anything higher and they are a waste. The smaller footprint was handy, and im glad i didnt run lancers instead, as my battle line was fairly slow and depended on being generally tough. I was very happy with the 5 defense and likely wouldnt use the 2h version, as the toughness seems to be their strongpoint. Lancers are just plain better than 2h ancients.

    Ghekko warriors were acceptable, and excellent at receiving (and negating) high CS charges. I have high hopes for the 40 attack errata and will be running 2-3 hordes of these.

    Fire elementals were fine counter chargers and i didnt feel like i needed the surge. Sparkstone was fairly handy; it pushed back a green lady, disordered an elf dragon that was standing on an objective a few turns in a row, prevented a flying hero from hopping lines, stopped EOD healing and felt like a decent way to spend 10 points. For this tournament, we had a free custom hero model that had a 12" ranged attack similar to sparkstone that hit all unit types, so having 2x of these on the board was pretty handy. I wish i had run forces of nature and used Keris for a 3rd ranged disorder lol. Im very glad i took fire elementals instead of tyrants, as move 6 pathfinder outweighed the few times double timing would have mattered.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2017 at 6:03 PM
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  17. Itepixcauh
    Razordon

    Itepixcauh Well-Known Member

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    4-2 is a good result! Congratulations!

    My thoughts exactly on the FE vs Tyrants. MOvement 6 with Pathfinder seals the deal. Tyrants are too slow to work. I'm also looking forward to the 40 attacks Ghekkos, REALLY looking forward to that for sure.
     

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