• The forum software have been upgraded to the latest version.

    If you notice anything that looks off, or does not work, please let us know.

    For more information, click here.

8th Ed. Net of Amyntok

NIGHTBRINGER
Slann

NIGHTBRINGER

Second Spawning
Messages
90,230
Likes Received
277,980
Trophy Points
113
I thought I would get everyone's insights on a couple of questions I have in regards to the Light spell Net of Amyntok...

  1. If the Net of Amyntok is cast on a unit with a wizard in it and that wizard tries to cast a spell but fails the strength test, can the wizard still attempt to cast another spell (with an accompanying strength test)?
  2. If the Net of Amyntok is cast on a unit that breaks from combat but fails the strength test (thus is unable to flee), is the unit automatically destroyed if the opposing unit had elected to pursue?

Looking forward to your thoughts.
 
2. I would presume that the unit is caught, as they are not allowed to flee and therefore must have "rolled" zero.
 
ASSASSIN_NR_1 said:
2. I would presume that the unit is caught, as they are not allowed to flee and therefore must have "rolled" zero.
Click to expand...

I was thinking they would be destroyed as well... since they stay in place and are charged into by the pursuers. This would really add another layer of usefulness to this spell. I have a feeling that it is a better spell than most people give it credit for, especially against low strength armies like Elves.

Any ideas on the first question?
 
It is a bit wierd as the spell has no mention of a wiazrd, just a unit, and I am not aware of any unit that is able to cast spells (might be wrong).

The way I think it works, is that wizard failing the test, will still be able to try his/her other spells. If the wizard could not cast any spells if the test was failed, I would say that the spell should be harder to cast, as it would more or less, like the end times spell for high magic, just with a 50% percent chance of the wizard not being unable to cast, and shutting down the enemy's magic phase, instead of a guaranteed shutdown. Most wizards do not have very impressive strength, making it easy for them to fail.

In addition the spells says: "every time it" (the unit) "moves", which must mean that it is for every spell, and not only a single time to determine whether or not the wizard can cast.
 
ASSASSIN_NR_1 said:
I am not aware of any unit that is able to cast spells (might be wrong).
Click to expand...
There are a few: Pink horrors, Doomfire Warlocks & Sisters of the Thorn. Mind you that only pink horrors were around at the time of the writing of the 8th edition BRB and the Net of Amyntok spell.

ASSASSIN_NR_1 said:
In addition the spells says: "every time it" (the unit) "moves", which must mean that it is for every spell, and not only a single time to determine whether or not the wizard can cast.
Click to expand...
I'd say that is a fair interpretation, one test each and every time the wizard attempts to cast a spell.

I would also argue that no power dice would be expended because the strength test occurs before the casting roll. Thoughts?
 
I'd say the second question is quite clear - the unit is destroyed as it cannot move.

The first however is not clear as you have mentioned. We play it here with my friends that only one test per phase and if it is failed then you cannot act in that phase. Since the "every time unit moves" can also be a reference to moving in multiple phases. If you would be able to test multiple times for casting a spell or different spells wouldn't you be then able to test multiple times in movement phase until you succeed? Or then once for charging, once for marching, once for normal move, once for reform? Wouldn't make much sense in my mind.

I believe ETC FAQ (if you believe in such thing :D) has ruled it also being one test per phase.

I would also say no dice are expended if you have failed the test.

BR
Agrem
 
Agrem said:
I'd say the second question is quite clear - the unit is destroyed as it cannot move.
Click to expand...
One down, one to go!
Agrem said:
The first however is not clear as you have mentioned.
Click to expand...
Agreed. I can see either your inturpretation or ASSASSIN_NR_1's being valid. I was surprised that there was no FAQ entry for it.

Agrem said:
ince the "every time unit moves" can also be a reference to moving in multiple phases. If you would be able to test multiple times for casting a spell or different spells wouldn't you be then able to test multiple times in movement phase until you succeed? Or then once for charging, once for marching, once for normal move, once for reform?
Click to expand...
I wouldn't liken spell casting to movement. A wizard is permitted to cast each of his spells per phase (subject to availability of power dice). A unit is only allowed to make a single type of movement per phase...
  • charge
  • regular move
  • march move
  • reform
  • shift reform
  • fleeing move
Declaring a charge for instance prevents the unit from attempting any other move. If a unit flees, it can not attempt any other type of movement. A swift reform is a special move that encompasses a reform+movement, but I'd still consider that a single move. So while a caster is permitted to make multiple casting attempts per phase, a unit is only allowed to make a single move per movement phase (though it can flee multiple times in an opponent's phase I believe).

I'm not saying that you're interpretation of the rule is wrong, I'm not really sure how it should be played. I just wouldn't use it's effects on movement as justification.

Agrem said:
I believe ETC FAQ (if you believe in such thing :D) has ruled it also being one test per phase.
Click to expand...
Although not explicit proof, it is definitely useful evidence that supports your interpretation.


This is a pretty difficult rule to figure out. Hopefully others weigh in on it. Come forth my scaly brothers and let your voices be heard!... @Scalenex @Pinktaco @Phatmotha-phucka @n810 @Slanputin @borkbork @Qupakoco @pendrake @Crowsfoot
 
The text of the rule says "casts spells." That plural part tells me you can cast more than once and therefore have to test more than once. No mention of phases unless there is alert rule that says you can only take one strength test per phase. Like Panic specifically has. Great way to shut down a lone Slann maybe.

Magic is a little different thanks to the ability to be able to use it multiple times in one phase. I can understand the ETC rule that limits it to once per phase since you could easily ruin an elfy walk in the park. ETC tries to make things nicer than reality, so that should be the tell tale sign.

Fully reading the text of the rule leads me to believe that the spell and shooting part was an afterthought since later on it states that the unit "remains in place."
 
@Qupakoco - It does limit it to once per face, but not as you write it :D

In fact it locks down the unit for the rest of the phase!
In the magic phase it functions like this:
If he fails his first S-test - he cant cast any spells that round.
If he succeeds - he can cast all he want.

Thats how we play it, and how we always have played it, so I cant really contribtue further :/

although, I find it awkward that you can just move on to the next spell in any case.
I think one could argue that the wording backs up the ETC somewhat also:

"If the test is failed, the unit is unable to perform the desired action,"

referring to

"moving as a charger, fleeing, pursuing, moving compulsorily, etc.) or shoots or casts spells"

I read it like he is prohibited to cast SPELLS in plural.
To go complete lawyer up in this B _ _ _ _ I would like to point out "shoots" is also plural, while you are only able to shoot once.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
I wouldn't liken spell casting to movement. A wizard is permitted to cast each of his spells per phase (subject to availability of power dice). A unit is only allowed to make a single type of movement per phase...
  • charge
  • regular move
  • march move
  • reform
  • shift reform
  • fleeing move
Declaring a charge for instance prevents the unit from attempting any other move. If a unit flees, it can not attempt any other type of movement. A swift reform is a special move that encompasses a reform+movement, but I'd still consider that a single move. So while a caster is permitted to make multiple casting attempts per phase, a unit is only allowed to make a single move per movement phase (though it can flee multiple times in an opponent's phase I believe).

I'm not saying that you're interpretation of the rule is wrong, I'm not really sure how it should be played. I just wouldn't use it's effects on movement as justification.
Click to expand...

Sorry to split hairs here but couldn't you from this argue that since unit is only allowed to make a single type of movement per phase but when failing the S-test you are not able to perform said type of movement. Did you then perform it or not? :P If not, then it wouldn't prevent you from trying the next one?

Anyway I don't think there is a simple solution to this one as it can be argued over and over to both ways especially regarding spell casting. The wording of the spell is just plain poor. As mentioned we also play it as once per phase to keep it simple. :)

BR
Agrem
 
it's possible to move again with certain magic spells.
 
Not sure what to think... good points on both sides. Definitely a potent little spell... what a wording nightmare!
 
Phatmotha-phucka said:
I read it like he is prohibited to cast SPELLS in plural.
To go complete lawyer up in this B _ _ _ _ I would like to point out "shoots" is also plural, while you are only able to shoot once.
Click to expand...

I think "shoots" is a poor word choice also. You could say "the unit shoots" and you could say "the character shoots". Who shot more? Is the character shooting once? Is the unit shooting once?

I remain by my interpretation but will heed to ETC if I ever play it. I do believe that the intent of the spell is to seriously cripple a unit, as every action it takes is now subject to a strength test.
And hey, if you don't want your wizard to have to hurt the unit when he "casts spells" you can have him leave. Strength test being passed of course, mwahaha!
 
ironically, given the lore and all, net of amyntok is made to CHAIN AND CRUSH THE WEAK!!!! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THR*COUGH COUGH*......hm hmm.
 
works great on frenzied units. ;)
 
We can't seem to find a consensus for question #1... I smell the makings of another poll.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
We can't seem to find a consensus for question #1... I smell the makings of another poll.
Click to expand...

so..... How is that poll coming along?

Or was the smell too faint, so it did not make it all the way to the brain to be processed into a poll for "all" of Lustria Online to take part in, to the delight(or so I believe) of the almighty NIGHTBRINGER Master of polls ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top