1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

AoS NEW *rumor*

Discussion in 'Seraphon Discussion' started by Logan8054, Jan 28, 2019.

  1. Erta Wanderer
    Skar-Veteran

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,646
    Likes Received:
    6,205
    Trophy Points:
    113
    no bridge/boat? it's on set up so every time you teleport you can go back into shining company as it's a new set up. mix that with a big cow and they can be -2 to be hit great for bunkering

    i think that's due to no cow aelves they seem to be the real tank in the army. 3+3+5++ -1 to be hit is a very good tank line sure you can only do it 2 times a game in Syre but that's normally all you need.

    they do seem to be very much a castle build so some battle plans are going to be hard.

    i think they are going to be a high skill floor army you can't just throw yourself forward with them. i also think that they are still missing half their stuff and that the scary stuff is still to come. still exited to play with them and against them

    what a shock the main weakness of mortek(high rend shooting) is good at dealing with them.:rolleyes:
     
    Nart likes this.
  2. Nart
    Carnasaur

    Nart Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,063
    Likes Received:
    2,261
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The problem is that they were not going to. They could just sit on 3 objectives for 5 turns and win the game. And I've only managed to kill one unit per turn, because they have no damage outside of mortal wounds. I think, OBR are great counter to LRL, because they don't have to pass BS tests, have 6+ ward and 3+ rerollable save. They also don't rely on magic that much. I wonder how they can fair against Tzeentch.

    I took him mostly for his 10 Ld bubble CA, but Katakros just drained all my CP (my mate rolls 4+ like 2+ and 6+ like 3+). He is a good fighter for 220 pts. but not OP.

    I had easy time with the list, while running DT salamanders. They don't have enough bodies to properly defend all harvesters. And even ша I still won't have good position to target harvester, I can try and focus single unit of 20 under harvester.

    The thing is Alarith are not shining in combat either. You have to go Ymetrica to get most of them. You just trade 5+ ward for -1 to-hit, but for less points. I don't know, might try.

    Indeed they are. I think, we'll need some time to figure out how to play them. My first idea after the game was to spam cathallar instead of taking teclis or LoE. Maybe, a couple of earth mages could be good too.

    Because they are Lumineth Realm-loRds obviously! :p (I am not a clever person :()

    Yes, bridge is a good idea, but boat will kill a model, which is unacceptable. For the big cow - I just haven't found a place for it. Even if I drop LoE, it wouldn't be enough. I cannot drop cathallar and I don't want to drop bodies further. And without battalion, I won't be able to chose who goes first. Maybe I try to go without LoE and Battalion.

    I don't really like them. Outside of Ymetrica they are not much better compared to wardens and they are super-slow. The also don't have sunmetal weapons and their damage output is low. They are also not a battleline and not a part of Auralan Legion. Without reroll of 1's they will be quickly brought down by lots of weak attacks and mortal wounds.

    That's what I was talking about. They have their weaknesses. They are very similar to OBR in this way, except OBR can be faster. Both BftP and Scorched earth would be a bit of struggle for them.

    I don't mean "just throw them forward and hope they do their job". I just mean that you have to be aggressive with them. If you stand and hope that your opponent come to you, you cannot win. With mediocre LRL's damage they can simply ignore you. So, yes, they need skill. Seraphon seems to me to be easy mode compared to them.

    I am sure, top players will find a way to get most out of them. But, unless there's something superbroken unobvious combo, I'd place them below current tier S armies.
     
    Grotpunter likes this.
  3. Canas
    Slann

    Canas Ninth Spawning

    Messages:
    5,111
    Likes Received:
    7,897
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This rather worries, you were able to to decimate one of the sturdiest armies in the game. That's not a good sign, even if you did struggle to score actual points. I don't like it to begin with when armies are balanced around the notion of being bad at scoring objectives while decimating the opponent with ease. And on top of that you're decimating one of the sturdier armies in the game. I'd be curious to see how this would've worked out against a less sturdy army

    How much troops did you actually lose by the way? That's not too clear.
     
    Nart and Erta Wanderer like this.
  4. Erta Wanderer
    Skar-Veteran

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,646
    Likes Received:
    6,205
    Trophy Points:
    113
    aelfe knife
    [​IMG]
     
    Imrahil likes this.
  5. Nart
    Carnasaur

    Nart Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,063
    Likes Received:
    2,261
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I've managed to do the same with old Thudnerquake - two bastiladons and 3 razardons+summoning. But it didn't help, because I was losing in points. Same here. He still had katakros by the end of turn 4 (we played just to see how would it go, if I didn't get doubled after turn 3).

    I wouldn't call it with ease. I managed to kill only one unit per turn only because of MW. I admit they are very good at hero sniping, but they have to sacrifice the whole shooting of a unit, because chance of bad roll is high. Also, they need to use Sparkling Light. Teclis is too random to rely on his casts and it is very easy to outrange him. Only Storm of Searing Light felt devastating, but I rolled a lot of 1's.

    The thing is they don't inflict much wounds. So they will probably struggle to kill horrors. Maybe, horses will help here, but you have to find a place for them.

    I lost Teclis, Eltharion and single unit of Wardens, which are, actually, half of the army. I had to go risky with teclis and take my opponents home objetcives. But he failed to kill 20 morteks with shooting, magic and close combat for 3 combat phases. And then katakros got in and killed him. Lack of healing hurts a lot.

    I think, against more aggressive armies, like seraphon, I could way more.
     
  6. Erta Wanderer
    Skar-Veteran

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,646
    Likes Received:
    6,205
    Trophy Points:
    113
    wait he lasted 3 rounds of combat with mortec? i thought you said he was squishy
     
    ILKAIN likes this.
  7. Nart
    Carnasaur

    Nart Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,063
    Likes Received:
    2,261
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I was only 20 mortek and not all of them could strike and they didn't have buffs from katakros. I also killed 5 with staff before charging. He also had Etherial blessing and Protection of Teclis. He lost 6 wounds in the first phase, 2 more in the second and then Katakros finished him off.
     
  8. Imrahil
    Carnasaur

    Imrahil Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,459
    Likes Received:
    2,648
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yep

    Grrr, Imrahil
     
    Erta Wanderer likes this.
  9. Canas
    Slann

    Canas Ninth Spawning

    Messages:
    5,111
    Likes Received:
    7,897
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Killing an entire unit per turn, imho, sounds like quite the damage output. Assuming you're not just killing MSU of skinks of course. Killing 20 mortek per turn, with all their defenses and healing, seems like quite the nice, reliable damage output. Especially if you can do it consistently. And especially if you can do it from range, as that avoids the issue of getting stuck on a screen.

    Although that's a good chunk of your points that is only like 30 wounds you suffered in total (with about 55-ish left). Which is way less than I expected. Also, I'm surprised 2 of the warden units managed to survive. I would've expected all 3 warden units to die before they'd get to Teclis, even if you use him aggressively. Where they never targeted by attacks?

    Also, I'm surprised about the struggles you had with getting Teclis in range. He's not slow, and he doesn't have weird ranges on his spell either. And the OBR also aren't fast enough to just run circles around you.



    Eh, bit random seeing as we just had the big aelven release with the LRR.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020
  10. Dread Saurian
    Temple Guard

    Dread Saurian Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    404
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Dark eldar
     
    Captaniser likes this.
  11. Canas
    Slann

    Canas Ninth Spawning

    Messages:
    5,111
    Likes Received:
    7,897
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Someone on FB pointed out the blade is more similar to the weapons wielded by the kairic acolytes. So that might be it too.
     
  12. Nart
    Carnasaur

    Nart Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,063
    Likes Received:
    2,261
    Trophy Points:
    113
    But I was talking about harvesters, not mortek. I wasn't able to completely kill any guard units.

    The only charge they made was Katakros into Teclis. He didn't need to kill me, he had only to stand objectives. If he brought Crawlers, he could easily kill all Sentinels.

    He is not slow, but his range isn't infinite either. I also had to keep him in more or less center of my army to get auras. And I didn't want him to be charged early on.
     
  13. Canas
    Slann

    Canas Ninth Spawning

    Messages:
    5,111
    Likes Received:
    7,897
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well you did say 1 unit/turn, there's only 2 harvesters so what else did you kill?

    So the OBR just sat on his objectives and didn't do much beyond that? I mean, I understand the sentinels & Cathallar being relativly save, they keep their distance and he has no ranged firepower. But I would assume the wardens would need to act as speedbumps in this match-up while you shoot at them. Hence it surprises me 2 of the 3 wardens survived seeing as those should be the first victims of the OBR. I would've expected them all to die by virtue of being your sacrificial speedbumps.

    Well yeah, but those aren't exactly weird limitations for a wizard. And with the bogstandard 18" range on basicly everything I would expect it to not differ in difficulty from any other wizard. So it surprises me that it was an actual issue. Though keeping him in range of both allies and enemies does complicate things.

    I'd be curious to actually see the match. Might clear up a thing or two.
     
  14. Nart
    Carnasaur

    Nart Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,063
    Likes Received:
    2,261
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sorry, I wanted to say "one unit at best". Since we effectively played 3 turns+1, I had only 4 shooting phases. On the first one I was too far away to reach harvesters, so I tried to kill some guard, but after all saves and revives I magaed to kill only one. Turn 2-3 I killed both harvesters. Turn 4 I kill 9 mortek guard in one unit and 3-4 in another.

    I think that would be the case if he was more aggressive. But I charged only depleted units and used my AQ for protection. I was never struck by full units. Still, I've lost about half of each surviving warden units.

    I can stream TTS in discord, if you are interested. If you can suggest a list, I would like to try it too, because my main idea is to capitalize on Vanari.
     
  15. Canas
    Slann

    Canas Ninth Spawning

    Messages:
    5,111
    Likes Received:
    7,897
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ah ok, that's considerably less. Though it says more about how ridiculously sturdy OBR are given how much quicker they dropped once the harvesters were gone.

    Well that explains that. Seems like an odd match though.

    Meh, if you can upload it on youtube or something so I can watch it on my own time sure. But having to go to a stream at the right time is a bit much :p

    As for lists; I'l look at stuff once the other warscrolls have been released in english. Want to be certain of how things weird and not worry about misreading a grainy picture in a language I only half-understand :p

    As for general list ideas, I'd be curious about the following:
    - Cow-centric (the big ones, not the ones with the funny helmets), they seem decently sturdy (especially with a stonemage to help them avoid profile degredation). Just smash em into stuff and see if you can wipe the enemy.
    - Archer-centric, just bring all the archers.
    - Teclis + mages + endless spells. The basic idea being to just cyclecast endless spells.

    I'd also like to see a more balanced list, combining their horses, archers & spearmen, but I think that'l ultimatly end up being a weak army as it doesn't fully commit to anything and without committing you won't have enough free points to truly dominate in any particular area.
     
    Nart likes this.
  16. Nart
    Carnasaur

    Nart Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,063
    Likes Received:
    2,261
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Had a game against LRL today. Both were pretty short, mostly, because I was lucky. I managed to deny Protection of Teclis with Kroak, dropped salamanders and wrecked two full units of Wardens and sentinels (he played Teclis+Auralan Legion with 2 large units of wardens, one large unit of sentinels and a small unit of sentinels, Syar). My opponent conceded after this. Second game I took thunderquake, my opponent didn't change the list, only took rune of pertrification instead of portal. I rolled hot with kroak and unbound 3 out of 4 teclis' spells and just took him down in one round of shooting with bastiladons. Once again, my opponent conceded.

    I was wrong. Until salamanders and kroak are nerfed, we are an uphill battle for LRL. The thing is, even if we lose our support heores, their stats are so poor our heroes' support is not essential. I know, it is only couple of games, but my predicitons are correct so far.
     
    Putzfrau and Imrahil like this.
  17. ILKAIN
    Skink Chief

    ILKAIN Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,616
    Likes Received:
    3,055
    Trophy Points:
    113
    so (in your opinion) do you think that we have been usurped as having the worst statted units per point cost?
     
    Nart likes this.
  18. Nart
    Carnasaur

    Nart Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,063
    Likes Received:
    2,261
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Definitely.
     
  19. Canas
    Slann

    Canas Ninth Spawning

    Messages:
    5,111
    Likes Received:
    7,897
    Trophy Points:
    113
    are those 1500 point games? Teclis + 4 units seems extremely little, even with their pointcosts.
     
  20. Grotpunter
    Ripperdactil

    Grotpunter Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    406
    Likes Received:
    642
    Trophy Points:
    93
    @Nart Did you post your Thunderquake list somewhere? My mate was curious about such a list but he cant really figure out how to put it together.
     

Share This Page