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AoS NEW *rumor*

Discussion in 'Seraphon Discussion' started by Logan8054, Jan 28, 2019.

  1. Caleb ex nihilo
    Saurus

    Caleb ex nihilo Active Member

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    Ouch... that hurts a lot of my lists.
    Skinks up, Razordons effectively up (you lose one), and EoTG up.... the list i'm taking to my next GT... is now 150 pts over! Wow. Thanks GW...
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
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  2. Ecozh
    Cold One

    Ecozh Active Member

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    Strange that Both carnosaurusses have the same value.

    I love my Guard and cameleon skinks, so this is a win for me
     
  3. Putzfrau
    Stegadon

    Putzfrau Well-Known Member

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    My list went down about 80, guess it just depends what you play.
     
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  4. Caleb ex nihilo
    Saurus

    Caleb ex nihilo Active Member

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    You running Sunclaw or Eternal starhost or something? Or a bunch of Trogs?
    Saurus lists got slightly better.
    Skinks lists got slightly worse.

    Seraphon still needs work.

    Hopefully some other GHB stuff will help us out.
     
  5. Putzfrau
    Stegadon

    Putzfrau Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, they still need work. Playing fangs myself, i really enjoy it.
     
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  6. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    To be fair, the troglodon is one of our best summonable monsters.
    But this is a points reduction, and i doubt there will be also a ccp drop. But who knows?
     
  7. Nart
    Kroxigor

    Nart Well-Known Member

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    It's hard to say, how it'll go without knowing changes to allegience (if there are any). Both classic thunderquake and shadowstike got a hit. But thuderquake with trogg and 2xStegadon are now -60 pts, which is huge. Battalion itself untouched thankfully. From the other hand, I often had 20 pts leftover when building lists. May be, the strike wasn't that hard. Guard is still, unfortunately, too vulnerable to mortal wounds and saurus not strong enough. Knights will benifit from drops the most, probably.

    Oldblood on carno at 240 is ridiculous, but ok. I don't complain at all.
     
  8. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    Yeah, with skinks at 70 and saurus knights at 80, we could see a shift in the use of these units

    I like it.
     
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  9. Tokek
    Chameleon Skink

    Tokek Well-Known Member

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    Yep, freshens up the game. Of course i have a whole bunch of Saurus Knights all heavy themed so I could be biased.

    I also have a Purple Sun with LEDs in the eyes and everything, feeling very happy that it might see the table in some games now.
     
  10. Caleb ex nihilo
    Saurus

    Caleb ex nihilo Active Member

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    Does a 10 pt drop for knights suddenly make them good? They have never done much on the table for me... No matter what their pt cost.
     
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  11. Scurvydog
    Skink

    Scurvydog Member

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    Eternity warden at 140 is insanely overpriced and the old blood on foot for 120 with a simply broken warscroll not being touched at all baffles the mind. The rest seems sensible enough, at least considering internal balancing, although saurus warriors in smaller units are still useless when you can get 10 wounds in saurus knights for 80 pts with more move and hitting power.

    Had hoped Kroxigors went to 140 but oh well. Saurus guards at 80 for 5 I still don't see them being popular, perhaps if the eternity warden had landed on a more sensible value of around 100 pts...
     
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  12. Tokek
    Chameleon Skink

    Tokek Well-Known Member

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    Well they do more damage than skinks - and are now pretty competitive with them for cheap mobile battleliine that can go score objectives. A reliable 14" move is not to be sniffed at.

    You can build a list to make them pretty good at killing chaff but whether that is a smart thing to do is a whole other question. If you have command points to burn and a Scar Vet on Cold One they can really chew through stuff.
     
  13. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    That depends on how you plan to use them.

    up til now, 60 pts of skinks were used to:
    - fill battleline
    - occupy objectives with their speed
    - serve as screen unit
    - no combat at all, can annoy opponent with the wary fighter ability

    but now, skinks are 70 and knights are 80, so it's a matter to see if 5 knights can cover the same role as 10 skinks:
    - fill battleline: check
    - occupy objectives with their speed: check… and they can move up to 14", so they're even better
    - serve as screen unit: check… and they do it better than skinks, as they cover more or less the same room, but got a better save.
    - no combat at all, can annoy opponent with the wary fighter ability: no wary fighter, but knights can actually fight, so they can effectively defend an objective, while skinks were forced to flee even if faced by 10 skeletons.


    So yeah. 60 pts vs 90 pts: 10 skinks were better… but 70 vs 80 pts? I'll pick the knights.

    and knights got more support by synergies than skinks (see serpent's staff, battalions and so on)
     
  14. Canas
    Skink Priest

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    They're our only battleline that can actually achieve something on their own without loads external buffs. The main issue is that skinks being as cheap as they were were our goto cannonfodder and we didn't expect them to ever achieve anything besides dying, so the Knights superiour stats never really mattered. Now that they're only 10 points more expensive we might see people use Knights more frequently as fodder that can actuallly kill the occasional opponent. Anyway tl;dr: use them as skinks that can actually put up a fight and they're quite good, and at only 10 points more expensive more people will probably like em.

    Don't forget, Knights can't just defend an objective they can even kill the occasional lost hero and his bodyguards if you can manage to get them in an unguarded flank. They're a suprisingly decent threat. Plus who knows ,you might get a Lucky charge in with some mortal wounds every so often.
     
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  15. Tokek
    Chameleon Skink

    Tokek Well-Known Member

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    Also not that despite typical Seraphon bravery skinks are not immune to battleshock. Saurus Knights in minimum units never lose models to battleshock unless someone is applying modifiers to their bravery.

    To put this in context putting 10 wounds onto a unit of skinks is pretty much the end for that unit. I am unlikely to make more than one or two saves and then the last survivors will usually fail battleshock. By contrast putting 10 wounds onto a unit of saurus knights is unlikely to wipe the unit, I will probably be left with one or two knights and they cannot possibly fail battleshock. The are no longer really useful for screening or combat but they are perfectly useful for moving fast and grabbing objectives and that is what I use depleted units of knights for.
     
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  16. Erta Wanderer
    Saurus

    Erta Wanderer Member

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    unless they change summoning i think skinks will still be better for deep strike
     
  17. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    indeed, that's another good point.
     
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  18. Canas
    Skink Priest

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    So the GHB has been put up for pre-order. There's a variant with cards for 60,- euro's and just the book for 25,-. The text description says we're getting updated command traits and such (as do some other factions). Which does make me hopefull summoning got a bit of shuffle in terms of points as well. Though since there hasn't been a big announcement about the allegiance abilities and such I doubt it'd be anything more major than a slight reshuffle and maybe a new command trait or two.
     
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  19. PabloTho
    Cold One

    PabloTho Active Member

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    I would like to see the summoning values of EotG and the Stegadon swapped. 18pt Stegadons would be a really nice threat to be able to bring in regularly with summon-heavy lists.
     
  20. Canas
    Skink Priest

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    Personally I'd like to see a couple of chances to summoning.
    - A drop in summon cost for saurus units, even if it gives weird pointvalues that aren't multiples of 6.
    - The possibility to summon with 9" of enemies, instead getting a different drawback. I dislike the 9" limitation it feels very gamey and is especially annoying in our army with our relative lack of shooting and lack of charge modifiers.
    - More sources of summon points. Make skink heroes generate a point per turn or something. Just anything that removes the complete dependency we currently have on our slann sitting in a corner doing bugger all.

    Also with how cheap a troglodon now is in terms of points, his summon costs should go down.
     
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