AoS NEW *rumor*

[GreenyRepublic]

If true, not the sort of changes I was hoping for: moving the Saurus towards cheap zerg horde just seems complete anathema to their fluff and appearance.

 

[Putzfrau]

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I would like quite badly for that to be real. Almost exactly what I wanted on Saurus, 300 for 40 would be AWESOME.

Also, reapers can't be used in LON, increase cost to the FEC heroes, nagash, and DoK heroes?

This would be incredible... if it's true.

If true, not the sort of changes I was hoping for: moving the Saurus towards cheap zerg horde just seems complete anathema to their fluff and appearance.

I don't really see that argument. Saurus have always been a horde unit, even in WHFB. They are the backbone of the Lizardmen force, THE lizardmen warrior.

They've literally never been this "elite" type of infantry, so i'm not really sure where that assumption has come from.

 

[LordBaconBane]

They've literally never been this "elite" type of infantry, so i'm not really sure where that assumption has come from.

This is what Saurus Guard are for I still hope they get 2 wounds however. Mortal wounds just eat them up.

 

[Putzfrau]

This is what Saurus Guard are for I still hope they get 2 wounds however. Mortal wounds just eat them up.

I think temple guard having 2 wounds (or a mortal wound save) seems totally fair. Regular saurus warriors? I just don't see it.

 

[LordBaconBane]

I think temple guard having 2 wounds (or a mortal wound save) seems totally fair. Regular saurus warriors? I just don't see it.

Agreed. Saurus Warriors are OK they way they are in terms of stats. I've always said, either make them cheaper (I originally said 90 points, but I'll take 80) or, give them a 4+ save and keep the points the same. I'm happy with 80 points if true.

 

[Putzfrau]

Agreed. Saurus Warriors are OK they way they are in terms of stats. I've always said, either make them cheaper (I originally said 90 points, but I'll take 80) or, give them a 4+ save and keep the points the same. I'm happy with 80 points if true.

I felt almost exactly the same way. 300 for 40 in a Fangs of Sotek list is a bargain.

 

[GreenyRepublic]

I don't really see that argument. Saurus have always been a horde unit, even in WHFB. They are the backbone of the Lizardmen force, THE lizardmen warrior.

They've literally never been this "elite" type of infantry, so i'm not really sure where that assumption has come from.

You're right, but they were always a cut above the average rank-and-file of other factions. I always saw them as being like the Roman Legionaries of Warhammer Fantasy: there are stronger troops out there, but you can field a decent number of them and they can hold like a rock in a fight. Right now they are just a bit feeble.

 

[LordBaconBane]

You're right, but they were always a cut above the average rank-and-file of other factions. I always saw them as being like the Roman Legionaries of Warhammer Fantasy: there are stronger troops out there, but you can field a decent number of them and they can hold like a rock in a fight. Right now they are just a bit feeble.

While this is true if you look at Saurus Warriors in a void, once you give them buffs or proper backup, they are really good. Lot's of buffs to go around from battalions, items, spells, abilities, they are a force to be reckoned with.

For example, in one game vs Skaven, my Saurus Warriors had serpent staff, summon starlight, and cornal shield buff (thanks Old Blood). I wrecked the clan rats and lost one guy. All about buffs

Edit: my 20 block vs his 30+ block.

 

[Canas]

I don't really see that argument. Saurus have always been a horde unit, even in WHFB. They are the backbone of the Lizardmen force, THE lizardmen warrior.
They've literally never been this "elite" type of infantry, so i'm not really sure where that assumption has come from.

I think it's the notion that saurus are literally bred for war. So they are "elite" by the standards of normal races as they're just bigger, thougher, stronger, faster & with a better inherent understanding of both fighting in personal combat as well as army tactics and grand strategy. Their entire existance is based around them being apex warriors. It's weird for them to then be used like cannonfodder. They might "merely" be our backbone, but like @GreenyRepublic just said, there's plenty of examples of armies with a relativly elite backbone like the roman legionaires, when compared to their adversaries.

To be honest they should've been tuned to work as 20-man units instead of the regular 40 man hordes. This way you keep the feeling of endless cohorts of saurus, that can be thrown into the meatgrinder as the great plan deems necesary, but it'd also allow them to have decent enough stats that they're clearly in a different class from other factions rank and file that make up the usuall horde units. Plus, it'd probably help avoid the current issue with minimum sized units being garbage…

 

[Nart]

Saurus points are only ones that really matter.

Guard will still die to mortal wounds/high rend. I don't think that this unit could be fixed by points alone.

Starseer - isn't needed even for 140 points. Command points are not that valuable for us. He is npt a part of any battalion too. Maybe, when we will have our own lore, it could be considered. His spell is nice, but still obtainable through mandatory slann.

Engine of Gods seems ok.

Kroxigors are nice, but I'd place them at 120.

Kroak - doesn't change anything.

Handlers - looks very strange. I often have 20 pts left, so throwing them in could be nice. They are now 9 wounds for 60 against 10 skinks wounds for 60. Skinks have better rules and can actually hurt something once for awhile, but 3 units of 3 means they can be spread out to deny more area. I won't like it, if handlers suddenly would be used this way.

Thunderquake is a huge hit, considering EotG goes up too.

The points look more like a whishlist, TBH. I don't think this changes will make anyone instantly go all saurus. And nerf to our strongest battalion will make us only to capitilize more on skinks summon spam. Considering EotG nerf, I'd only give it +20 pts at max.

 

[ASSASSIN_NR_1]

I think it's the notion that saurus are literally bred for war. So they are "elite" by the standards of normal races as they're just bigger, thougher, stronger, faster & with a better inherent understanding of both fighting in personal combat as well as army tactics and grand strategy. Their entire existance is based around them being apex warriors. It's weird for them to then be used like cannonfodder. They might "merely" be our backbone, but like @GreenyRepublic just said, there's plenty of examples of armies with a relativly elite backbone like the roman legionaires, when compared to their adversaries.

To be honest they should've been tuned to work as 20-man units instead of the regular 40 man hordes. This way you keep the feeling of endless cohorts of saurus, that can be thrown into the meatgrinder as the great plan deems necesary, but it'd also allow them to have decent enough stats that they're clearly in a different class from other factions rank and file that make up the usuall horde units. Plus, it'd probably help avoid the current issue with minimum sized units being garbage…

Exactly this.

Saying that Saurus were never elite is just wrong. Sure you had better units, but if we look at core choices, aside from Initiative and WS their profile is the same as Chaos Warriors and no one would say that Chaos Warriors weren't elite.

 

[Canas]

As for the point reductions.

The skink handlers drop is nice. Those Always felt weird. It might make it a bit easier to fit in 2 or 3 handlers to actually cover your various razordons and salamanders instead of only 1 pack. As for @Nart 's remark of people potentially abusing them, they lack wary fighter, they don't have a ranged attack, they don't have shields & their damage, although better than a regular skink, is still terrible. Overall they're far worse at grabbing objectives and the like and I doubt many people will be good enough to actually abuse em (admittadly, there's Always going to be that one competitive player that figures out some weird playstyle with stuff like this..)
Thunderquake is essentially nerfed twice as it rarely if ever sees a troglodon used. So that's a bit stupid.
Kroxigor buff is nice, but probably not enough on its own. Kroxigor need some syngeries or a nice battalion they actually fit in to start seeing use.
Kroak buffs are Always nice though it doesn't seem too impressive.
Starseer buff seems pointless unless they fix his spell to actually do something usefull, or at least give him a command ability of his own to spend the points on.
Guard drop is nice, but doesn't fix their issues with mortal wounds and their overreliance on synergies to function even without mortal wounds (anything less than an eternal starhost + skink priest is underwhelming with their lack of wounds)
Warrior drop is nice, but also still leaves them extremely Reliant on synergies on bonusses which can easily be disrupted and still being garbage without them.

It does raise an interesting question though, is this going to have an effect on our summoning costs? Cuz a point-drop there would be much more noticeable and usefull. Summoning 5 guards for 12 points isn't going to be too interesting, even if you can back them up with (some) buffs, but 10 do make for a decent force, especially as summoning is flexable and you could summong them in convenient places, away from any mortal wound threats.

 

[Xicohtencatl]

Contrast- It seems like contrast paint makes it easier, well i just add more water to original paint and i can do it very identical results.... sure if you are a professional competitor and have a lot of armies this will make it easier to finished them all... seems like death guard and similar models look super but for me some armies and modes look not good at all... when i like the model I do take time with it... so so far im not that astonished by em.. i think they serve their purpose... which is quick results for mass armies

 

[Putzfrau]

Exactly this.

Saying that Saurus were never elite is just wrong. Sure you had better units, but if we look at core choices, aside from Initiative and WS their profile is the same as Chaos Warriors and no one would say that Chaos Warriors weren't elite.

Chaos warriors were better than Saurus in almost every single way. The hit better, they were tougher, they WERE elite warriors.

Saurus were not. They weren't elite in the context of WHFB, they were in this weird "not quite cannon fodder, not quite elite" space and always have been.

The fact that nearly everything seems to have 2 wounds now (dwarves, orcs, etc) kind of muddies the water, but comparing Saurus warriors to chaos warriors kind of proves my point. If Chaos are "the" elite warriors, Saurus were literally worse in every way.

 

[Lizerd]

Not really. Adding to much water results in thin and runny paint, basically a shade. It really is not effective at creating good detail. Contrast in comparison does not appear to be as runny so I doubt you could achieve the same results with just plain water. But I could also be wrong, so K say we just keep thinning our paints and calling it good then and there.

 

[LordBaconBane]

Chaos warriors were better than Saurus in almost every single way. The hit better, they were tougher, they WERE elite warriors.

Saurus were not. They weren't elite in the context of WHFB, they were in this weird "not quite cannon fodder, not quite elite" space and always have been.

The fact that nearly everything seems to have 2 wounds now (dwarves, orcs, etc) kind of muddies the water, but comparing Saurus warriors to chaos warriors kind of proves my point. If Chaos are "the" elite warriors, Saurus were literally worse in every way.

But Chaos Warriors come in half the unit size and have much different utility. Your'e comparing apples to oranges in this case.

 

[Putzfrau]

But Chaos Warriors come in half the unit size and have much different utility. Your'e comparing apples to oranges in this case.

Exactly. That's pretty much my point. Chaos Warriors were elite. Saurus were not..ish. I'm only using them as a comparison because someone else brought them up as a "hey chaos warriors were elite and look how similar they are!" but they werent' similar and never have been.

Sorry to totally derail this thread, i'll stop now.

 

[Xicohtencatl]

Not really. Adding to much water results in thin and runny paint, basically a shade. It really is not effective at creating good detail. Contrast in comparison does not appear to be as runny so I doubt you could achieve the same results with just plain water. But I could also be wrong, so K say we just keep thinning our paints and calling it good then and there.

Well yea, my point... it doesnt do that much detail from what i saw, does nice blending effects (thats why nurgle deamons look fine ) from what i saw...I feel like details still need to be done normally or?

 

[ASSASSIN_NR_1]

Chaos warriors were better than Saurus in almost every single way. The hit better, they were tougher, they WERE elite warriors.

Saurus were not. They weren't elite in the context of WHFB, they were in this weird "not quite cannon fodder, not quite elite" space and always have been.

The fact that nearly everything seems to have 2 wounds now (dwarves, orcs, etc) kind of muddies the water, but comparing Saurus warriors to chaos warriors kind of proves my point. If Chaos are "the" elite warriors, Saurus were literally worse in every way.

Excuse me but which book are you looking in then? In the one I'm reading Chaos Warriors are almost identical to Saurus Warriors in 8th edition Warhammer Fantasy; They have the same movement, Strength, Toughness, Wounds, Attacks and LD and armor save (sure some of these are standard for infantry); This means that they only differ statwise in WS and Initiative (and BS but the stat is useless to them.). How is that not similar?
Going a bit further to special rules: We have Cold Blooded and Predatory Fighter and they have some champion challenge thing, so we come out on top there.

If we'are talking AOS then I would agree that they differ a lot.

 

[Dracorex]

On their page in the core book, it says something like “Saurus are in every way equal to the chaos warriors they fight.” Seraphon(especially Saurus) aren’t anything like how they play on tabletop. They’re sort of a “tell don’t show” army.

Also in the Warhammer tv Lahmian medium video, they said that if you water down a paint too much it will appear bland or patchy. Speaking of mediums, would the contrast medium allow you to turn a base or layer paint into a contrast paint like lahmian medium with a shade or is it just for thinning contrast paint?