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8th Ed. Picking up Lizardmen - questions :)

Saurus unit with a character in it is a pretty decent hammer, if a little bit slow. The character can deal good death, the saurus are actually some of the strongest infantry in the game. Maybe boosted with a spell or two from a Slann and they are gold.

Don't discount skrox units entirely either. Yes, the t2 skinks die easily, but remember as a hammer they are hitting the flank or rear of a unit thus there aren't really all that many attacks coming back, only 1 rank instead of 2. And with the amount of static combat res they gain (+1 charge, +1/2 flank/rear, +3 ranks since you negate theirs) it already leaves the unit ahead most of the time, and that is BEFORE the krox swing their weapons.
 
Do you guys know if I take the feed back scroll + bane head + becalming cogitation...will this alllow the 6s to still count toward the scroll? Or will becalming discard the 6s?

If it doesnt ignore the 6s..still a little confused on the rules and no book yet..that sounds like a sick combo :-)
 
well maybe skrox arent that bad, its just if you are playing a player that has more units than you he can easily protect his flank. you only get the ranks for one unit, so you wont gain an additional 3 if a unit of saurus is already grinding. IMO stegadons dont need that, and have only one weakness multiple wounds/instant death. however as we have maybe the best fast cav, (terradons) who can do the job of taking out warmachines, aaand the main anti warmachine force... charms which are BRUTAL at their job.
 
syypher said:
Do you guys know if I take the feed back scroll + bane head + becalming cogitation...will this alllow the 6s to still count toward the scroll? Or will becalming discard the 6s?

If it doesnt ignore the 6s..still a little confused on the rules and no book yet..that sounds like a sick combo :-)
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Haven't heard of this coming up before...?
Are you sure you don't have two arcane or Enchanted items there ?
 
n810 said:
Haven't heard of this coming up before...?
Are you sure you don't have two arcane or Enchanted items there ?
Click to expand...

Bane head is an enchanted item and feedback scroll is arcane so it is legal.

And unfortunately the 6's won't count towards it as they are discarded before the spell is cast to allow the working out if it was successful so only the 5's will wound the enemy wizard
 
Are you sure? Feedback Scroll says to roll a dice for "every dice used to cast the spell." It doesn't say any dice used that is used that successfully casts the spell. Just every dice USED to cast.

and Becalming says "any power dice that roll 6 made by that wizard are discarded.."

Which means he has already used the dice to cast with. It just gets discarded after he used it to attempt a cast. He did use 6 dice to attempt to cast the spell.

Also p32 of the rulebook it says "Once the Wizard, spell and target have been chosen, the player then declares how many power dice from his pool the Wizard will use in his attempt to cast the spell." Then a little lower after the spell is cast it has a section for "casting value."

So the way I see it, when you calculate the casting value, the 6's are discarded. But he already used that dice from the power pool in his attempt to cast. Which is what the Feedback Scroll says, "..used to cast the spell."
 
Yeah I would say it doesnt count. Once you discard the 6's you are no longer using those dice to cast the spell.
 
cyanhawk said:
Yeah I would say it doesnt count. Once you discard the 6's you are no longer using those dice to cast the spell.
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But you already used those dice to attempt to cast the spell. They are discarded after they roll a 6 but still used to attempt the cast. Look at the specific wording I quoted. Also from the rulebook and calculating power dice used to cast, and then calculating casting value.

I'm not trying to bend the rules in any way nor interpreting it in a skewed way. Those are words straight from the rulebook + codex. They used the specific words to allow this to happen from what I am reading. Please read my previous post first as what you said is bypassed by the way the rules are worded.

If I'm wrong in my interpretation I'm sorry. I'm just trying to understand it from your guys p.o.v. who think this doesn't work. Please help me understand by disproving what I quoted and wrote.
 
The feedback scroll specifies that it can only be used once a spell has been cast i.e. the casting value has been met or exceeded.

Your first quote on page 32 is only part of it. Go down to the casting value section and you have the first paragragh
The chosen dice are then taken from the casting player's power pool and rolled. The results are added together, and then added to the casting wizard's level to give a casting result
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This is the point that the 6's are discarded. Then you add up the remaining dice to get the casting result.

If you go down two sections after that one it says
If the casting result equals or exceeds the spell's casting value the spell is cast
Click to expand...
Because of this line the only dice that would count as having cast the spell would be the dice left over that did not roll a 6.

I would say that the beauty of becalming is the average person will add an extra couple of dice to a spell figuring they are safe from miscast and the odds are pretty good that they wont roll any 6's, so the feedback scroll would still be effective fairly often.
 
Cyan pretty much answered it for me. As it says dice used to CAST and the 6's are not used to cast the spell cause they are discarded in the part before the scroll takes affect, cause you are not using the scroll until the spell has been successfully cast, and by then all those 6's have gone
 
vict0988 said:
you only get the ranks for one unit, so you wont gain an additional 3 if a unit of saurus is already grinding.
Click to expand...

Thats not what I meant. I know you only get up to 3 ranks no matter how many units in the one combat. Looking at just rank bonus though... Saurus unit grinding with a big opponent unit from the front, both units have 3+ ranks, both get +3 combat res, they cancel out. Now you charge the skrox into the flank, they negate the rank bonus of the opponent due to having a flank charge (unless that rule changed in 8th ed and I didn't notice?) so now you have +3 from either the skrox or the saurus, and your opponent has 0. Thats where you get the extra 3 combat res from ranks, not from adding 3 from the saurus to 3 from the skrox.
 
I believe they have changed the negating ranks rule, you must have two ranks yourself to 'disrupt' another unit, to take away its rank bonus so your going too need a ranked unit to take advantage of the rule. :L
 
Yeah thats right, so again CoC get a bit of a hit to their usefulness, but skrox units as flankers should almost always have a couple ranks.
 
This is an interesting post, it helps a lot to know how our army is suppose to work.

I guess grinding our opponent is the way to go, sad. :(

So sallies and skinks and a slann? thats really dissapointing.

But this thread definitely helped on what to take in my army
 
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