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KoW Post-CoK Organised Play Supplement CLoWFD Tactics

Discussion in 'Salamanders Tactics' started by BAE, Feb 16, 2017.

  1. BAE
    Razordon

    BAE Well-Known Member

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    Over my time playing KoW, the Clan Lord on Winged Fire Drake with Ensorcelled Armour evolved to fit a very specific function: he was a work-around for Sallies being so slow. Firstly, he provided a large threat area to directly slow an opponent's units' movement in the early game, and in the mid-game he would jump over and restrict an opponent's manoeuvrability as he/she dealt with the threat. In the process of this, he would inevitably pick up 5-10 wounds, sometimes taking more.

    However, with the Clash of Kings Organised Play Supplement, Ensorcelled Armour has been removed. This means that my CLoWFD is considerably more vulnerable than he used to be and his function is no longer possible, and as such my list is now distinctly lacking. I played Elves (w/ Ogre allies) last week and lost even though I believe I 'won' the movement game.

    Does anyone have any ideas?
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
  2. Negator
    Saurus

    Negator Member

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    He's the worst dragon out there. Could just go cheap at 280 and leave it at that. Also have fog and ensnare artifacts.
     
  3. BAE
    Razordon

    BAE Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure I agree with you - compared to the Elves' Dragon Kindred Lord:, the CLoWFD is 30 less points, has CS(2) & TC(1) instead of CS(3), has Vicious, 2 less Attack, 1 more Breath and 2 less Nerve. While I admit that might be marginally worse per point, it's hardly a wild amount of difference.

    The Fog is a good shout - the main issue is him being shot at as I rarely put him into combat, thank you!

    p.s. you can't carry more than one item, so Fog + Ensnare isn't possible :p
     
  4. Negator
    Saurus

    Negator Member

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    I meant one or the other.

    2 attacks, 1 cs for 1 tc and 2 nerve for 30 points is pretty awesome. vicious = elite. 8 attacks on a 300 point model just isnt very impressive considering you can get the same thing for a little over 200 points in other armies.
     
  5. BAE
    Razordon

    BAE Well-Known Member

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    Very good point - I'd forgotten about the Elite! I definitely concede that he doesn't exactly compare favourably.

    I'm not so fussed about the extra 2 attacks - he rarely gets into combat and usually only does when a rear, flank or war machine makes itself available to be charged. Most of the time it is threat projection and bouncing around flaming things. The Nerve difference I am less happy about.

    What would you thoughts on a Skylord be? I know @Itepixcauh is a big fan of dual-Skylords but I find they're too weak to make any kind of dent so opponents can quite happily ignore them. Something I was potentially looking at was the CLoWFD + a Skylord, although this would mean dropping the herald and therefore only having one (usable) source of inspiring...
     
    Crowsfoot likes this.
  6. Negator
    Saurus

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    ill admit i havent used the skylords enough, but my conclusions are the same as yours.
     
    BAE likes this.
  7. Tecuani
    Saurus

    Tecuani Member

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    Well, it's somewhat dependant on the opponent whether they can ignore a skylord simply because it's too weak to make a *large* dent, and against anything less than defence 6 one or two wounds is pretty reliable. For anything which hates being disordered, that one wound is a big inconvenience, and for several of the weaker chaff units, army standard bearers and war machines, a few wounds is a significant chance of a waver or rout. For anything already engaged to the front, the extra wounds from a skylord in the flank or rear become a real concern.
    Plus, of course, if they're getting scenario points that makes them something your opponent has to deal with regardless of whether they're actually threatening anything.
    They aren't major damage dealers, but with all the other options salamander's have for heavy melee damage, that isn't a role we'll often be depending on them to fill. Flying harassment, in contrast, is something the rest of the army *isn't* doing, that they do well. I have found them to be a bit fragile with only defence 4+ and no protection from shooting, but then at least they're drawing shooting away from other targets.
     
  8. BAE
    Razordon

    BAE Well-Known Member

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    To cause that one would to make the opponent disordered the Skylord would have to get into combat. As you noted, he is particularly fragile, so if you were justifying it on that basis you would essentially be spending 130pts to disorder one unit once in the game as he will inevitably die in the response. I can see benefit of drawing shooting from elsewhere, but even with that benefit he doesn't seem to justify his cost - he would soak up one, maybe two regiments of shooting before dying. Maybe taking one as a war machine hunter could be useful, but killing chaff units would usually put him right in front of the large, angry horde of whatever the chaff was screening. I've tried to find how to use him from watching bat reps but I've found scant few 2000pts battles that use one - 1500pts leaves a good amount of board open and empty, allowing faster units to flank wide and avoid lines of sight, but 2000pts doesn't often provide that luxury.
     
  9. classicflava
    Cold One

    classicflava Active Member

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    elite isnt a bad option. With a breath(16) attack it makes a difference. Also gives you elite and vicious in combat which lets you get the most out of those 8 attacks
     
  10. Itepixcauh
    Ripperdactil

    Itepixcauh Well-Known Member

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    I haven't played almost any 2000 point game, so I can't talk but at 1500 my Skylord or Skylords are usually really useful. Of course not really a combat monster but I can usually pull a couple of flank/ rear charges, hunt characters, disorder big shooters or kill warmachines. Sometimes is just the ability to disrupt your enemy movement or making him suffer the consequences of giving a juicy rear charge to a skylord (15 attacks on 3s with Vicious is not bad, I've finished lots of units with that)

    Also his shooting is really good, hitting on 3s is a very big deal and dealing one or two wounds on a character can be deadly with a bit of luck, or finishing a wounded unit reliably too.

    Also right now I'm playing with just one (usually with the blade of the beast slayer) and a Herald with Heal. I agree that he is too weak and that if the enemy is lucky he will die in one go even with quite weak shooting but still I just adore him, it is like a Swiss army knife of goodness. Of course my experience is my meta and that includes the 1500 point cap (which I've been trying to rise since we started to no avail)

    That being said they are no easy to use, and a mistake usually means he is dead.
     
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  11. classicflava
    Cold One

    classicflava Active Member

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    really like the idea of blade of the beast slayer on the skylord. Being so mobile it can pick its targets. lets it take on more than warmachines reliablly
     
    Itepixcauh likes this.

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