Discussion in 'Seraphon Discussion' started by Aginor, Jun 17, 2018.
Correct as far as I know.
Same seems to apply to casting through an Umbral Spell Portal.
Oh I just noticed I haven't talked about spells that could be better than the Purple sun in my opinion:
One of the candidates is the Geminids.
Reasoning behind that:
- 40 points instead of 100.
- bigger range, which means you can cast from not that far away from your lines, improving the chance for your starpriest to survive
- if you move both orbs in parallel you will do 2d3 damage to any unit you pass over.
- the debuffs aren't bad at all.
Now let's do some math: against a unit of 10 single wound models the Purple Sun will cause 1.6 wounds on average, let's say 2 for the sake of the argument.
The two Geminids will cause 4 wounds. Their minimum is 2 wounds.
Against a unit of 10 2-wound-models the purple sun is barely as good as the Geminids. In fact there is still a good chance it is worse.
You need 3-wound models as a target, then the Purple Sun is better. Or big hordes. For single wound models the break even point is 25 models or so.
So the Purple Sun scales better with unit size.
But what about heroes?
Well... against a five (or less) wound hero the Purple Sun will kill it in 16.6% of cases.
The chance of the Geminids doing 5 damage (which will kill the target) is 22.22%
The advantage of the Purple Sun is that it doesn't cause wounds, it kills. So against armies with a ward save it will be a bit better.
Problem when going to a tournament is: you have to make your list without knowing what your enemy is.
So overall I think the Geminids might be the better choice.
The other good choice is the pendulum.
D6 damage is not bad at all.
The casting range is like for the Purple Sun, and it moves a tiny bit less, and more predictably. That means it cannot be used against you that easily, the enemy can only dispel it, and yes he might be able to avoid it, but especially for slow armies that is harder than it looks like.
And its 40 points is cheaper than the Purple Sun of course.
I think, the power of purple sun is just in killing something really big in one shot - random 6 can kill a vampire on zombie dragon, stardrake, frostlord on stonehorn, nagash, archaon. Chances are slight, but this adds additional psychological pressure. And it hurts hordes too. From this point point of view, it costs its 100 points. Not many abilities in a game can kill a model straightforward when it is at full wounds.
The purple sun only kills things with less than 6 wounds, otherwise it deals 2D6 dmg, in most cases not enough to kill one of those bastards.
Yeah, the average of 2d6 is 7. Not bad but a 16.6% chance to do 7 damage... I don't know if that would be worth 100 points, a spell slot, and the risk of getting hit by it myself...
I've actually been giving some thought to using the life regen swarm with an Eternal Starhost. Basically, use the starhost as the core of my defensive castle around my Slaan and Astrolith bearer and use the spell to replenish any guard that die. The rest of the army runs around and kills stuff and takes objectives.
But how do you prevent enemies from just moving your Lifeswarm away? That is my main concern about it.
It is solvable if you always go second in a turn, but then you cannot move Endless spells your opponent throws at you, at all.
...hmmm maybe just try and dispel them all...
Ah, yes, forgot about this part. Then, yes, constant damage from other spells will do more.
Meanwhile I checked some artefact leaks. Many of them useless like "deal 1 MW on 5+ to all units in 8", but others very helpful and can make carnosaurs, scarvet on CO, sunbloods and other close combat fighters very useful. From what I remember: a couple artefacts gives bearer -1 to-hit, so we can give one character up to -3 to hit: starlight, realm-specific spells, artefacts. This will make slann almost invincible (-4 to-hit with look out). There are melee weapons that give +1 to-hit, +1 to-wound or even both, one that makes one weapon rend -3, another deals d6 mortal wounds on roll of 6+, it target is hero or monster, but this is instead of attack's damage. One which I liked especially - once per game choose a unit in 3" at the start of combat phase, roll dice for each model - on 5+ it deals mortal wound. Can be a game changer for small point games, where usually no more than 1-2 large blocks.
I will post screenies in the evening.
Sounds like some useful stuff is in there.
I have lost the link to the leaked artefacts but I have downloaded the page with the Shyish and Aqshy artfacts, which looks pretty interesting.
Nevermind....nothing to see here
I am very dissapointed by the lot of them. They are almost all of the numerical memorization type:
one has to remember ...plus this; ...minus that; roll a Dx and add it to umpty; ...lasts for Dx turns, etc.
I detest Magic that is merely Bookkeeping.
Ok, here we go. Every realm has 6 weapons and 6 relics, chosen just like normal artefacts.
1.Entangling blade - if hit Hero or Monster, then this Hero or Monster gets -1 to-hit until the end of the phase.
2.Jadewound Thorn - mortal wound on roll of 6+ to-hit with chosen weapon.
3.Blade of Hammerhal Ghyra - +1 attack with chosen weapon.
4.Sunderblade - roll dice for every enemy unit in 9". On 6+ it suffers d3 mortal wounds.
5.Ghyrstrike(?) - +1 to-hit and to-wound rolls for chosen weapon.
6.Arboreal Stave - every combat phase chose enemy hero - on 5+ it cannot pile in.
Ghyrstrike is perfect for Sunblood, but others are so-so.
1.Hypersnare Seeds - in opponent's shooting phase choose a unit. On 5+ it cannot charge.
2.Verdant Mantle - one attempt to dispel endless spells in hero phase. If Hero is a Wizard, it doesn't consume cast attempt.
3.Jade Diadem - heal 1 wound for every 6+ save roll.
4.Greenglade Flusk - once per battle in hero phase heal d6 wounds.
5.Ghyrropian Gauntlets - +3" for pile-in moves.
6.Wand of Restoration - in hero phase restore 1 wound to any model in 6"
Greenglade Flusk is good for Carnosaur or Enginge of Gods. Others are too situative or random.
1.Stonehorn Blade(?) - if made any wounds with chosen weapon, then roll d6 at the end of the phase. On 5+ chose a unit in 3" - it suffers d3 mortal wounds.
2.Anraheir's Claw(?) - +2 damage for chosen weapon on to-wound rolls of 6+.
3.Amberglaive - +1 to range of chosen weapon (up to 3") and +1 to-hit.
4.Blade of Carving - to-hit rolls of 6+ with chosen weapon wounds automatically.
5.Rageblade - +1 Attack for chosen weapon.
6.Rockjaws - pick a unit in 8" of the bearer. On 3+ it suffers d3 mortal wounds.
Melee heroes can benifit from most of them, but Stonehorn Blade is too random and situative. Seriously, in which case it can be better than Rockjaws? Rockjaws is simply second prism. All of them are nice but not god-level.
1.Beastcaller Bones - roll d6 for every monster in 3" at start of every combat phase. On 5+ it cannot attack this phase. If it has rider, he still can attack.
2.Drakeforged Plate - reroll save rolls of 1 for attacks with random damage. Kind of useless with new Mystic Shield.
3.Gryph-Feather Charm - -1 to-hit for attacks targeting bearer and +1 move. Great for any hero - another layer of protection for Slann particularly.
4. Gargant-bone Dice - once per game in hero phase roll 3 d6. For every 5+ each enemy unit suffers d3 mortal wounds. Everything that happens on 5+ seems too unreliable to me.
5.Shardfist Pelt - in combat phase for every save-roll of 6+ attacker suffers a mortal wound. Some enemy horde units with no rend can suffer from this, but we have better choices.
6. Tuskhelm - after charge roll d6 for every unit in 1". On 4+ it suffers 1 wound.
Gryph-Feather Charm is great. Others can deal some mortal wound, but again, too random.
1.Aiban's Hidden Blade - +1 damage for attack with this weapon for every to-hit roll of 6+.
2.Flowblade(?) - for hit rolls of 6+ with chosen weapon add +1 for to-wound rolls of these attacks.
3.Runeblade - give one weapon -3 rend. Just Blade of Realities killer.
4.Crucible of Molten Silver - once per battle draw a line from bearer ot a visilble point in 9", Every unit that it crossed suffers d3 mortal wounds - friend or foe.
5.Chamonite Darts - in shooting phase choose unit in 8" and roll 6 dice. For every 6+ it suffers mortal wound.
6. Argentine's Tooth - reroll hit rolls for chosen weapon.
Again some nice choices, but our best melee weapons are on mounts, unfortunately. And none of these beats Prism as stable mortal wound output relic.
1.Gildenbane(?) - negates enemy's artefact effects in 3" of the bearer. Can be a nasty one.
2.Argent Armor - just another -1 to-hit for attacks against bearer.
3.Hydroskin Cloak - gives fly. Also roll 3+ for one enemy unit that the bearer passed across. On 3+ it suffers d3 mortal wounds. Sometimes may be useful.
4.Godwrought Helm - each time you allocate a wound on bearer, roll d6. On 6+ attacker suffers mortal wound. Better then Shardfist pelt.
5.Bejeweled Gauntlets - at the end of combat phase chose enemy unit in 1". On 3+ it suffers mortal wound.
6.Alchemist chain - can unbind like wizard. If given to wizard it gets +1 unbind attempt. Can be useful in small-point games without Slann or against Tzeentch.
Some interesting choices here.
1.Ruby Ring - in hero phase closest unit in 18" suffers d3 mortal wounds on 5+.
2.Magmaforged Blade - inflicts mortal wound on 6+ to-wound in addition to damage.
3.Magmadroth Blood Vials - choose enemy unit in 8" in shooting phase. On 4+ it suffers mortal wound.
4.Purefier Brazier - roll for every enemy unit in 9". On 5+ it suffers a mortal wound.
5.Onyx Blade - +1 for to-wound rolls of chosen weapon.
6. Exile torch - at the start of combat phase choose a hero in 3". On 6+ it suffers mortal wound and cannot fight.
1.Essence of Vulcatrix - once per battle in hero phase roll d6. On 1 bearer suffers d3 mortal wounds, but on 2+ adds +1 for to-hit and to-wound rolls. Ghyrstrike is strictly better.
2.Thermalrider Cloak - gives fly and +4 move. Good for any melee hero or arcane vassal.
3. Smouldering Helm - in combat phase for every save-roll of 6+ attacker suffers a mortal wound. Shardfist Pelt C'n'P.
4.Ingax's Scales - 4+ save against mortal wounds. Give it to eternity warden and enjoy protecting Slann.
5.Crown of Flames - +1 bravery to friendly units in 9". Probably the last thing Seraphon need.
6.Cleansing Brooch - once per battle in hero phase heal d3 wounds. Incandescent Rectrices or Greenglade Flusk kill this one.
1.Blade of Endings - +2 damage for attack on to-hit rolls of 6+ for chosen weapon.
2.Banshee Blade - for every to-hit roll of 6+ for chosen weapon roll 2d6. If result beats target's bravery, deal d3 mortal wounds in addition to damage.
3.Lifebane - +1 to-wound for chosen weapon.
4.Sliver of Decrepitude - if deals any damage to hero or monster - substract 2 from movement for it for the rest of the battle.
5.Wraithbow - - in shooting phase choose unit in 18" and roll 6 dice. For every 6+ it suffers mortal wound. C'n'P pf Chamonite darts, but for 18".
6.Splinterthooth - in shooting phase pick unit in 8" and roll 3 dice. In two of them are same result, then targets suffers d3 mortal wounds, if all 3 are the same - d6 mortal wounds.
1.Cronehair Fetish(?) - -1 or +1 for the roll for Realmspace Feature in Shyish. Looks utterly useless.
2.Etherial Amulet - ignore rend for bearer. This one is really good. Just makes any hero pseudo-bastiladon. Oldblood on Carno can compete with ScarVet because this one.
3.Sepulcharal Plate - ignore allocated wounds on 6+ (save before save). Not bad, actually.
4.Amethyst Blindmask - when bearer dies, roll d6 for every enemy unit in 6". On 3+ it suffers mortal wound. Meh.
5.The Ragged Cloak - can be used once per battle in opponent's shooting phase. Bearer cannot be targeted by shooting attacks that phase.
6.Goblet of Draining - if one or more wound inflicted by a bearer on a Hero, roll d6. On 5+ it suffers d3 mortal wounds. Nothing said about when or how many times it can be used.
Overall, some nice defencive artefacts. One of the best realms for Seraphon IMO.
1.Miasmic Blade - another "-1 to-hit against bearer".
2.Blade of Thirteen Dominions - -1 to-hit for the target until the end of the phase if any wounds inflicted with chosen weapon. Can be effective when multi-charging something dangerous.
3.Blade of Foldred Shadows - +1 to-hit for weapon.
4.Blade of Secrets - if inficted wound to wizard, it forgets a spell of your choice. Just shutdown Arhkan's broken Curse of Years.
5.Dimensional Blade - give one weapon -3 rend. Blade of Realities dead twice now.
6.Sword of Judgement - for every to-hit roll of 6+ of chosen weapon inflict d6 mortal wound if target is Hero or Monster. One of the best Weapon Artefacts. Perfect for both Carnosaurs as Scarvets as they can hunt down heroes.
Probably best choice of melee weapons. Everything is good and some even great.
1.Spellmirror - deny spell effect on any friendly unit in 6" of a bearer on 5+. If roll is 1, it cannot be used for the rest of battle.
2.Trickster's Helm - reroll successfull casts for enemy wizards within 8.
3.Doppelganger Cloak - melee weapons cannot target bearer, if it didn't attack earlier that phase. Simply awesome.
4.Wristbands of Illusion - ignore allocated wounds on 6+ (save before save). Sepulcharal Plate C'n'P.
5.Betrayer's Crown - once per battle at the start of combat phase chose a unit in 3" of the bearer with 2 or more models. Roll as many d6 as there are models in that unit. On each 5+ it suffer a mortal wound. Perfect hoard-crippling artefact. Good both offensively and defensively.
6. Watcher's Talisman - if bearer is not within 3" of enemy models at the start of combat phase, choose a unit within 9". It can reroll save rolls of 1.
Best realm. IMO. Both weapons are relics are excellent and some close to game-breakers.
1.Blade of Symmetry - +1 damage to chosen weapon.
2.Glittering Blade - if dealt any wound with chosen weapon, heal 1 wound.
3.Luminary Rod - once per battle draw a line from bearer ot a visilble point in 9", Every unit that it crossed suffers d3 mortal wounds - friend or foe. Crucible of Molten Silver C'nP.
4.Sunblade - if dealt any wounds target gets -1 to-hit till the end of the phase. Another C'n'P.
5.Crystalline Blade - +1 for to-wound rolls.
6.Prism Amyntok (what?) - in shooting phase chose unit in 8" and roll 4 dice. For every 6+ it deals mortal wound.
1.Aetherquartz Brooch - on 5+ recieve a CP every time you spend a CP. With Mighty War Leader you can have a CP farm.
2.Lens of Refraction - reduce damage from enemy spells by d3 within 6" of the bearer.
3.Mirrored Cuirass - ignore mortal wounds on 5+. On 6+ choose enemy unit within 6" - it suffers a mortal wound.
4.Lightshard - when bearer dies, roll d6 for every enemy unit in 6". On 3+ it suffers mortal wound. Amethyst Blindmask C'n'P.
5.Guardians Coronet - once per battle in hero phase declare it is activated. Until next hero phase ignore any allocated wounds on 4+.
6.Sash of the Ten Paradises - +2 to move.
Not bad realm too, but Uglu is better, I think.
I see some really nice stuff there. A few of those can give our heroes a nice little buff.
I had to laugh at the thought of a Skink Priest with feathered cloak using this one:
Hydroskin Cloak - gives fly. Also roll 3+ for one enemy unit that the bearer passed across. On 3+ it suffers d3 mortal wounds.
The Skink priest already has a good move so now he can be like a Terradon. Fly over the enemy, drop a bomb.
Then he acts as an arcane vassal for the Slann to cast through.
A flying Carnosaur or Troglodon could also be fun.
I have a friend who plays Wanderers, the Doppleganger cloak will be nice when fighting Forest Dragons. Although it brings up a question, if theres just the one combat between forest dragon and lets say a carnosaur, the dragon breathes and forces the carnosaur to fight last. Does the dragon not resolve any attacks when chosen to fight since the carnosaur must fight last?
Do you know guys the list of spells from malign portents?
technically yes, I have the book at home (I am 1000km from there though so not really. )
Why? Anything great in there?
There are some really questionable design choices going on in those artifacts. For instance, why would anyone ever take Essence of Vulcatrix if Ghyrstrike exists? I'm guessing if we take an artifact from a particular realm, all our other artifacts (if any) have to come from the same realm or our allegiance artifacts?
As far as I understand, you can only take realm specific artifacts and spells if you are playing the game in that specific realm, and they are in addition to the choices you allready made from your alliance
Description states that you can choose one artefact of power from the Realm you dedicate your army too. Dedication to Realm is part of list-building like choosing allegiance. You can use spells only if you play in specific Realm. I found nothing that states how you should choose Realm. Looks like you need to agree on this in friendly game. Still unknown how this will be applied to tournaments. There will be either roll-off on who chooses Realm or it will be preset for certain round\table. It will be shame if Realms won't be used at tournaments at all.