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AoS Realmshaper Engine - Let's Crack It!

Discussion in 'Seraphon Tactics' started by RandomTsar, Mar 22, 2020.

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Do you think the Realmshaper Engine is Better Served as a Defnesive Feature or Offensive one?

  1. Defensive

    5 vote(s)
    13.9%
  2. Offensive

    4 vote(s)
    11.1%
  3. Somewhere In between/Situational

    27 vote(s)
    75.0%
  1. Grotpunter
    Kroxigor

    Grotpunter Well-Known Member

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    I havent looked at the GHB2019 for the terrain rules since they came out, and due to a baffling amount of mistakes in regards to the rules for setting up terrain etc., a lot of the community just ignored all those pages and pretended it never existed. Im honestly surprised you play this way, it is the first time I have ever heard of anyone following those rules and playing accordingly.

    Most of the guys I play with like to play in tournaments, so it makes little sense to have one ruleset for "normal matched play games" when tournaments have a completely different approach. Might as well try to replicate tournament games as best as possible during our casual stuff for practice.

    That is why I dont see the Arcane Ruins as a means to "balance out" the case with the Realmshaper Engine, because it would never happen in a tournament setting and from what I have seen, many people play with randomly rolled terrain.
     
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  2. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    I feel this debate is going nowhere, but hey.

    Look, i'm perfectly fine with this approach, and i get it's the one adopted by the large majority of gaming groups.
    However, the BIG bug of our own terrain, is that it must be placed before all other terrains and before the players pick their own territory. While basically all the other armies set their terrain in their own territory.
    SO, if your opponend is adamant that you must place the Realmshaper before even knowing where do you set your army (because the rule of the terrain says so), then you should point out that, by the rules, then you should get the kind of terrains that are placed on the battlefield.

    "We don't play by certain rules because they are annoying, exept for the part that screws my opponent" it's not a valid reasoning.
     
  3. IggyStarhost
    Ripperdactil

    IggyStarhost Well-Known Member

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    staying positive here! Love the arcane terrain find :)

    I can think of two more ways to use it:

    1) Place it within a deployment zone but up to the front, so it is atleast within 22” (preferibly 16”) of the other deployment zone. In case your opponent wins the roll, hope they garrison it with support heroes. But now you can set up your kroak within range and target the RE since you will mostly have line of sight on it, and blast some MW to them!

    2) set it up in a deployment zone but just with a tip outside of it. Now the opponent cannot garrison it in the setup. If you know you outdrop your opponent you could negate the garrison by moving or losat within 3” of it. If you win the dice roll, you could garrison it t1.

    there are probably more uses for it, but we just havent figured it out yet :)
     
  4. LizardWizard
    Skink Priest

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    I want OBR to run catapluts. That is just more points they aren't putting into Mortek, Stalkers, and Support heroes. Have never had to play vs the catapult yet. They just aren't taken too much at GTs and MTs.
     
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  5. Putzfrau
    Carnasaur

    Putzfrau Well-Known Member

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    I guess they are pretty popular in the UK scene. a 5-0 list from a few weeks ago had 2, and i know there was another one kicking around in another tournament that did quite well with 4.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2020
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  6. LizardWizard
    Skink Priest

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    That is fair. The meta is very different based on your region.

    I see lots of Nagash, Arkhan, and Katakros. Sometimes two of the three in a list. Then you add in two Harvesters and you just don't have room for the catapults. And I would rather deal with 2-4 Catapults than Nagash or Arkhan + Katakros any day of the week. Most OBR list in my area are highly influenced by Alex Gonzales LVO list.
     
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  7. Putzfrau
    Carnasaur

    Putzfrau Well-Known Member

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    Just repeating what this podcast was saying, but it seemed like the person talking through his 5-0 lists dropped nagash/Arkhan in favor of catapults.

    Something like (could be wrong):

    Katakros
    Little hero

    20 guard
    20 guard
    5 horses

    2 catapults
    1 harvester

    I think it was JP Stevens talking on a recent episode of the JustSaying podcast.

    Over here all the east coast, I've seen 1 at least in most lists but Ive only played like 4 games since goldensprue.
     
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  8. Nart
    Stegadon

    Nart Well-Known Member

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    I said it many times and say it again - I hate catapults because they are so random. In my games against OBR they did almost nothing, but I cannot rely on them failing. And they can easily take out characters, so I have hide them, which hinders my positioning even further. It creates terrible game experience. I'd better lose to mortek guard spam than win against dual catapults. I think, they are pretty useless against other top tier armies.

    If we are talking about OBR, @LizardWizard, may I ask your opinion on a good list in Death-heavy meta, including OBR, LoN, NH, FEC, which will not include Terradons or mass saurus? And out of curiosity - what to do with Fyreslayers? I never faced them and they are not popular in our meta, but they seem to me almost unkillable even with our increased damage potential.

    EDIT: Sorry for off-top. I really thought that it is 2.0 list thread because looked only at the last posts, not the name. :D
     
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  9. LizardWizard
    Skink Priest

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    DT with Kroak, Slann, and Salamander spam???

    Any reason you are opposed to Terradons or Warrior spam?
     
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  10. Nart
    Stegadon

    Nart Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I don't have them. :D But Salamanders are fine, I've found nice alternative and can make handlers from remaining skinks. Thank you!
     
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  11. RandomTsar
    Saurus

    RandomTsar Active Member

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    Getting back on the topic...

    I understand many peoples feelings about it's sub par nature (I agree and relate to the frustration!), and if an FAQ is imminent where it gets buffed , then great. In the mean time though I would appreciate if you would share your frustrations else where and offer constructive responses to tactics revolving around the placement of terrain.

    In general here are the tactics I've picked up from the thread. What are your thoughts (opposition or otherwise) for each one? I'll edit the OP to include them.

    (When referencing them might help to include the number)
    General Tactic Ideas
    1. LoS blocking, based on scenario and opponent place terrain in such a way that will cause your opponent to adjust their deployment and first turn moves ie middle between two zones - Goal would be to try and move units behind it to increase turns without shooting
    2. Plan to place it mostly in a starting deployment zone, with just enough out to make an opponent not auto Garrison it. Make them spend a movement getting in. Same for us though
    3. Depending on how your game group tackles the scenary rules, plan to bring an arcane ruins as your primary terrain. Setup the two terrain pieces on opposite deployment zones, causing your opponent to choose which bonus to give you (and with our bonus rules we shouldn't be affected by their negative primary terrains)
    4. Place the piece in such a way to limit the deployment in the backlines, to the point where you leave enough for a wizard to LoST behind it (using large base size and LoS to ensure your wizard can get in next turn)
     
  12. Slikus Vaw
    Cold One

    Slikus Vaw Active Member

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    So wouldn't we be able to use the arcane vassal with the realmshaper? LoSt the skink hero in there nd with kroak near think it would give a good range boost. 12" for arcane vassal 6" maybe a little more if measured from corners for terrain.
     
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  13. RandomTsar
    Saurus

    RandomTsar Active Member

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    Unfortunately it doesn't appear that RAW allows us to LoST into it because you have to use a move to enter it, and we teleport at the end of movement.

    But your general premise would still work, sense our skink hero would measure spells from the RSE. Arcane Vassel would let us measure to and from the terrain piece.
     
  14. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    Exactly.
    You can immediately garrison the RE (or any terrain that can be garrisoned) if it's wholly within your territory at the beginning of the game, otherwise you must be nearby said terrain and then you "enter" it instead of making a normal movement.
    So things as chamaleon skinks, units teleported with LoSaT or called by Dracothion's tail CANNOT enter directly the RE.
     
  15. Slikus Vaw
    Cold One

    Slikus Vaw Active Member

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    So with the Oracle we can use slanns or kroaks spell anywhere the Oracle is so can have a nice bubble with the realmshaper in the middleish with a skink hero in it nd then an Oracle on some flank with kroak nd the baelwind slightly off to the other flank nd could get kroaks spells along most of the board
     
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  16. Lizerd
    Skar-Veteran

    Lizerd Well-Known Member

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    Right now I have only gotten to use the realmshaper engine once, and honestly is was pretty solid in dealing mortal wounds. It did well as a decent fall back and as an impediment for enemy forces. Wish I got more time to use it tho
     
  17. RandomTsar
    Saurus

    RandomTsar Active Member

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    Did you win the roll off for deployment zones?

    Do you remember what scenario you were playing? If so where did you place it?
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
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  18. Lizerd
    Skar-Veteran

    Lizerd Well-Known Member

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    Yep, won deployment and was playing shifting objectives, i plopped it in the center of the board, just behind the central objective and behind some fungal forests
     
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  19. Alladin the Paladin
    Chameleon Skink

    Alladin the Paladin Well-Known Member

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    So now that FAQ is out, what is the verdict here? To me it’s now basically just a piece of scenery. There is probably a way to use it, but the main effects are now totally secondary, doubly so if you are coalesced and can’t just LoSaT near it at some point.
     
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  20. Nart
    Stegadon

    Nart Well-Known Member

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    We need more actual tests to get it value, but in competitive games there is no room for risks. You don't want to give your opponent any chance of advantage, even the slightest.
     
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