AoS Seraphon nerfs

[Putzfrau]

I actually really like the new changes. Kroak obviously got hit hard, but I think its cool they kept some of his unique flavor intact. Time will tell whether it was too much or just right.

I dig the Starseer ability, anything that lets you generate more command points opens up cool opportunities, especially with saurus units.

 

[ILKAIN]

In the words of that song I once heard "fuck this shit im out" I just got nerfed out of my league so hardcore its not even funny. how do they expect us to hang with tzeench players... if theres not points adjustment to Kroak hes basically not worth it. only 3 targets.. ok I get it, 2+... why the variance... 8,9,10... really? after you took away our casting buffs. the wounds count will be the only things that's not actually a nerf. it just clarifies that he can go on the BWV and that he uses his insta death rule for Purple sun and Nagash finger of death spells.

Long live the dead frog king

 

[Wazz]

The Kroak changes kinda make him work better for summoning at least. So that's kinda cool? Lol

 

[ChubbSkink]

I like the changes, toned down Kroak and Starpriest. GW celarly doesn't want us to reroll any dice, ever. The changes on Rippers make me happy, they are now like they have "taser beaks" which is always a great mechanic(I play Mechanicum in 40k, sorry for the reference).

 

[Moc-Tzen]

People on the FB seraphon group got upset at people not liking the changes for kroak and having a different opinion. I am thinking on leaving but telling them to F&^%$%^&* up first hehe.

Ahem! Anyways.


My only complaint about this is:
Re-rolls for command points is lame, they should had left those alone. The starseer is pretty useless now.

Imo celestial deliverance was fine at 1, before that we didnt had any problems with kroak being OP.

I mean srsly, what are we supposed to do with all of them command points now?

 

[PabloTho]

Nice to see that GW is able to comprehensively nerf everything we had going for us but still give us no answers as to how Bloodclaw works under Aos 2.0.

I'm exaggerating though. EOTG and Rippers obviously needed a change. However, I am struggling to think of a reason why I should put 450 points aside for Kroak now - and even more confused as to why the Starseer was in need of a stern talking-to. As far as I'm aware he wasn't getting a whole lot of use anyway.

Hopefully now that Kroak and Engines aren't quite as appetizing we can see a bit more variety in our competitive lists. Let's get some Saurus in there!

 

[Justin C]

Kroak over-nerfed. Not worth 450 by any means. Rippers and EOTG fair changes I think.

 

[Nefertem]

Is it right, to my understanding, that multiple bearers add up to cast while the additional range can't be more than 8"?

 

[Lezlor]

Let's get some Saurus in there!

I’m Lezlor, and I endorse this message.

 

[Canas]

Is it right, to my understanding, that multiple bearers add up to cast while the additional range can't be more than 8"?

So it'd stack but not even consistently? That'd just be weird...

 

[Vexcor]

The new EotG looks fine, with the new rippers i have to check if
terradons make more sense to summon......
Maybe the potential MW could now be better

 

[Kolent]

My question about EotG, what really changed? The area of invocation?

 

[Lezlor]

It’s the movement of summoned models from eotg that’s changed I believe.

 

[Vexcor]

My question about EotG, what really changed? The area of invocation?

Before change: summon units in the hero phase, so they can move in the movement phase
after change: still summonend in the hero phase, but cannot move in the movement phase

 

[Galen]

Starseer change is just odd. The new rule is not terrible and if you actually believe a CP is worth 50 points then the new rule is still good but I thought the old bluffing game was great fun and I will miss it.

At a guess, it's because GW considered the old bluffing game to be not in line with how they're writing rules these days. It does bear a similarity to the "joke" rules being written back at the start of AoS, such as raising a goblet to the Lady, or having a longer beard than your opponent.

I mean srsly, what are we supposed to do with all of them command points now?

Whilst I don't agree with the Starseer changing this way without a points decrease (he's absolutely not worth 200 points), my Saurus-heavy lists have a lot of uses for Command Points. Dumping 4 CP on a Scar Vet on Carnosaur or Scar Vet on Cold One can yield some pretty insane results. For example, dropping the Scar Vet on Carnosaur buff on a 40-strong Saurus Warrior unit 4 times will grant you an extra 80 attacks, and that's without rerolls. Drop the Scar Vet on Cold One buff 4 times on a 15 strong unit of Saurus Knights, and you're looking at 90 Cold One bites, rerolling 1's. I've already used CP dumps to good effect in my games so far, and I'm eagerly looking for more ways to get CP into my lists (which is why I'm annoyed the Bloodclaw Starhost STILL hasn't been properly updated for 2.0).

 

[Canas]

And another one: spell range tricks like arcane vassal or range buffs cannot be applied to endless spells anymore.
That will limit their use a bit.

well that's lame… Which errata says this (why do we have so damn many errata's.. it's a mess to find anything)

The change to Kroak's command ability makes it somewhat terrible, same with the starseers ability. They're neat mechanics, but our command abilities only affect saurus so a lot of seraphon lists simply won't care. It feels like we suddenly have rather much cp-generating abilities but relativly little to spend it on. Yes it's great in a saurus-focused list, but basicly pointless in any other list.

The nerf to kroak's celestial deliverance feels like far too much.
The casting values are mostly fine, though casting succesfully three times in a row is becoming rather iffy now.
The fact that the unique part of the ability is kept is great.
The range limitation is bad, Kroak's still a wizard, getting in range of 10" is dangerous. He might not be the easiest to kill, but getting this close to the frontline is rather dangerous.
The target limitation is questionable. It just turns it into a short range and less reliable version of his comets which is kind of lame.
The additional 2+ just feels like someone lost one too many matches to Seraphon and wanted to kick Kroak when he was down. It's just a needless extra nerf…

It's just too much without anything to make up for it.

If they want the range to be this short he needs to be capable of going into the frontlines.
The target limitation just makes it too similar to his comets.
And the additional 2+ requirement would be fine if it weren't for the rest of the rather long list of nerfs. Hell the Original spell with a 2+ or 3+ or even a 4+ requirement probably would be fine.

The only way in which these nerfs make "sense" is if you assume that Kroak will Always have astroliths & balewinds to support him. In which case he's bumped up back to decent but he also ends up effectivly costing somewhere around 600-700 points which is rather harsh. Not to mention that he immeadiatly has a massive problem should the astrolith get killed or the balewind be dispelled.

 

[Aginor]

well that's lame… Which errata says this (why do we have so damn many errata's.. it's a mess to find anything)

It is in the FAQ for Malign Sorcery.

But now that I said that....
I wonder if it really applies. The wording is not 100% clear to me.
It definitely affects the Astrolith Bearer and BWV spell range bonuses as well as the Slann's bonus on doubles, but I think I read the second sentence wrongly.

EDIT: Or maybe not...

 

[Darkfine]

It feels like everyone is forgetting Seraphon can still summon buckets of models(my Nurgle army MAYBE get a couple of summons per game), has decent access to none magic mortal wounds, army wide 10 Bravery, more than a few good auras AND the bar none best objective game in town in Seraphon’s ability to teleport units at will.

The army got a balance pass, it did not get nerfed into the dirt.

 

[Lezlor]

why do we have so damn many errata's.. it's a mess to find anything

Yup....I’m a bit hacked off at how shoddy / calculated by gw it is. Change is good, as long as it’s done well. Spreading things over 3 books is a poor show in my opinion. Now add in erratas it makes it even more mind taxing. Especially if you’re tired from hot nights and a bit dozy from too much plastic glue.

 

[Canas]

It is in the FAQ for Malign Sorcery.

But now that I said that....
I wonder if it really applies. The wording is not 100% clear to me.
It definitely affects the Astrolith Bearer and BWV spell range bonuses as well as the Slann's bonus on doubles, but I think I read the second sentence wrongly.

EDIT: Or maybe not...

where in the malign sorcery? I don't see any mentions about range bonusses or arcane vassals or anything really.

The change to the lens of refraction is good, but less of a default "imma screw your wizard army over"-pick now.
The spellportal nerf seems a bit much, especially considering you can only summon 1 portal. It'd be fine if we had mroe than 1 portal. With only 1 use it doesn't really fit in a wizard army anymore.
The geminids I feel is fair and fluffy, so those I don't mind.

Yup....I’m a bit hacked off at how shoddy / calculated by gw it is. Change is good, as long as it’s done well. Spreading things over 3 books is a poor show in my opinion. Now add in erratas it makes it even more mind taxing. Especially if you’re tired from hot nights and a bit dozy from too much plastic glue.

at this point I'm just going to end up largely ignoring the errata's while playing. There's too many and apart from a few properly broken abilities I'm unlikely to remember that they even got changed… and I'm not going to print out 500 extra pages and glue em to my books…

It feels like everyone is forgetting Seraphon can still summon buckets of models(my Nurgle army MAYBE get a couple of summons per game), has decent access to none magic mortal wounds, army wide 10 Bravery, more than a few good auras AND the bar none best objective game in town in Seraphon’s ability to teleport units at will.

The army got a balance pass, it did not get nerfed into the dirt.

o we're not terrible as an army. It's just that the ripper nerf is just flat out lame seeing as they removed the old cool infinite mechanic and replaced it with a simple "does D3 hits" thing. And kroak is just hit far too hard as an individual model. Fortunatly those are not the only models we have so as an army we're fine. But that doesn't mean we can't be annoyed about what happenend to those specific models