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8th Ed. Three Game Tournament, 2500 points versus LM, WE, and OK

Discussion in 'Battle Reports' started by Scalenex, May 28, 2014.

  1. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    My list is here

    I played a tournament recently and finished towards the top of the bottom half. We played Dawn Attack, then Blood and Glory, then Watchtower. I took some photos. They helped jog my memory for things but they are embarrassingly blurry so I won’t inflict them on this forum or Photobucket. Note there were three house rules that affected things.

    First, hills were considered infinitely high from the models’ perspectives. Nothing had line of sight to units on the opposite side. This slightly nerfed cannons. This also made Arcane vassals more important.

    Second, Holding the Watchtower or making your enemy reach the breaking point in a Blood and Glory Scenario did not trigger an auto-win, but it did award the “victor” 500 bonus points.

    Third, while there was a standard 0 to 20 point scale based on points scored each battle, we always had a randomly selected set of secret missions worth up to 15 points.

    Here’s an example of my first one.

    2 points: Favored of the Court, your character worth the fewest points must survive the battle.
    5 points: You must eliminate all artillery (or artillery-like monsters such as Salamanders)
    7 points: You must eliminate every enemy spellcaster.

    The terrain was set up by the Tournament organizer. A few hills, a few forests, one had a river. A few had extra buildings or a few decorative impassable features. There was always a building near or in the middle of the table.

    I was not able to take detailed enough notes to make a turn by turn break down on any but the last battle.

    Round One, Lizardmen versus Lizardmen


    Opponent List (roughly)
    Slann, Harmonic Convergence, Channeling Staff, Wandering Deliberations
    Old Blood on a Cold One

    Tetteko
    Scar Veteran BSB on a Cold One
    1 Ripper Chief.

    Three or four units of 10 blowpipe Skirmsihers
    2 x 25 units of Saurus Warriors

    3 Rippers
    2 x 5 units of Chameleon Skinks
    Very large Cold One Cavalry unit
    2 Salamanders without an extra Snack

    Many of my Tacticas are based on theoryhammer and educated guesswork. I can safely say with zero modesty that pretty much verything I wrote about LM Mirror Matchups is very accurate. I was also able to plan unit on unit matchups well. If he brought rock, I brought paper. If he brought paper, I brought scissors. To be honest, luck was on my side in this Dawn Attack Scenario. I had one unit placed where I didn’t want it, my opponent had quite a few units poorly placed.

    My right flank had a unit of Skirmishers, the male Salamander. My center got my Temple Guard, Saurus Warriors, then Trogoldon, then other Skirmishers with my Skink Priest and bordering the left flank was my female Salamander. My left flank only had my Kroxigor. I rolled a 6 on my Cohort Skinks giving me the option to place them anywhere I wanted, so I gave them a straight shot to a watchtower near the middle of the board. I deployed my Chameleon Skinks defensively to try to keep the enemy Chameleon Skinks away from my relatively open Skirmishers (the ones that did not have an arcane vassal).

    My opponent had his left flank (my right flank) overloaded. He had 25 Saurus Warriors, Tet’s Skirmisher bunker, and his Cold One cavalry bus of death all there to face my isolated Kroxigor. Because that side of the table was near empty for me, he placed one of his Chameleon Skink units there too. He was fortunate to get his Slann in the center along with his other Saurus Warriors, a Salamander, some Skirmishers. I believe opposite my left flank there wasn’t much. A Salamander and later some Chameleon Skinks. I don’t remember where the Rippers deployed because they Vanguarded fully. Also, Tet rolled three Vanguards so most of the army surged forward at me.

    My opponent and I had opposite strategies. He made it his first priority to send the bulk of his attacks against my Temple Guard Slann bunker, while I made it my first priority to clear his chaff away before targeting his character bunkers.

    Slann and Temple Guard: My Slann cast nearly every spell via an arcane vassal. I marched the TG towards the enemy Slann’s Skirmisher bunker with all due possible haste. My opponent threw everything he had at my TG, including a blot toad. By turn six, my Temple Guard had been hit by so many magic missiles (and one Comet) that they had little more than the command crew left. He might have sealed the deal against my unit with his Rippers, but my Cowboy intercepted the Ripper unit, and I was able to kill the Ripper chief with a combination of Skirmisher shooting and Iceshard Blizzard. By turn six, my opponent’s support units were all dead or tied up somewhere, so my depleted TG and a nearly unscathed unit of Skirmishers doubled charged the Slann bunker and broke the unit destroying the enemy Slann at the very end.


    My Cohort Skinks: I rolled a 6 with my deployment and was thus able to put them anywhere. I b-lined them into a watch tower. They were the only unit I had that was wiped out, but they kept a unit of 25 Saurus Warriors busy for three or four turns and that’s well worth it. They could have easily left my 20 Skinks alone. Actually it was 15 Cohort Skinks because they got hit by a Comet beforehand. The best part? After the Cohort died, I got a bonus round of out of place Saurus because they had to use a whole move exiting the building.

    My Saurus Warriors: They didn’t do much besides take some peripheral shooting and march forward to force enemy Skirmishers to back up.

    My Priest bunker Skirmishers: My Priest bunker was the anti-Skirmisher king. First up, javelin Skirmishers will beat Blowpipe Skirmishers any day of the week. A couple magic missiles transformed them into super killers. They panicked one unit of Skirmishers off the table and weakened Tet’s Skirmisher bunker so much that they inflicted a wound on the man himself after the unit was down below five models. Then Tet died from a relatively minor miscast later. That would not have been possible without the Skirmishers wounding him first.

    My other Skirmishers: They took potshots at Saurus but they really earned their points charging the enemy Slann’s Skirmisher bunker in turn 6 helping beat the enemy toad. Also they did good at staying alive, weathering some minor barrages from Chameleon Skinks. They also did crucial supporting damage to the enemy Ripper chief and a Salamander.

    My Kroxigor: Due to a poor Dawn Attack deployment roll, they were very isolated. Rather than send his mighty Cold One bus at the Kroxigor, my opponent tried to get them towards my center, but they never made it anywhere useful because of a river. My Kroxigor tried to get to the center of the table initially, but I quickly realized that was futile and just turned them to corner the Chameleon Skinks nickeling and diming them with darts. They ran the enemy Chamos off the table and did little else.

    My Chamo Skinks: Tet rolled three Vanguards. This meant a lot of troops advanced on me quickly including an enemy Salamander was able to roast four out of my Chameleon Skinks in turn one. Fortunately he did not panic, so I was able to have the lone survive march around the board playing points denial the rest of the game.

    My male Salamander: The Vanguard move opened up the enemy Salamander to double charge by my male Sally and a unit of Skirmishers. It took two turns to kill it, but my Salamander was unscathed. The other enemy Salamander was so focused on burning Temple Guard, that he did not guard himself against my Sally charging him. So my male Salamander ended up killing two enemy Salamanders practically unscathed. He had to defend his mate I guess.

    My female Salamander: My female Salamander knicked the edge of my enemy’s right-most Saurus block and luckily panicked them. They eventually rallied, but they were pushed too far away to meaningfully contribute to the battle. I can’t ask for better than that.

    My Troglodon: He got a nice hill top position to help me cast many magic missiles at enemy chaff, but he didn’t do anything personally other than melt one enemy Skink with his spit attack. He lived though, that’s points denial.

    My opponent’s general strategy: My opponent would use the WD Slann with two dice spells to nickel and dime my Temple Guard unit with magic missiles until he either rope-a-doped me out of my dispel dice or his Slann failed to cast a spell at which point Tet would cast Comet with all the remaining power dice. After being hit by one Comet, I changed my defense strategy. I figured TG could take S4 magic missiles fairly well, so I prioritized Comet as my must-dispel spell and it worked out okay. A combination of bad luck and poor target selection kept his Saurus units away from my army center all game. Once his chaff units were all gone I was able to corner both of his spell casters. I think a WD Slann and Tet was not a good combination. There just isn’t enough PD for 15 spells. I beat him 20 to 0 and I got all 15 possible bonus objective points. My most one sided tournament game victory ever.

    Round Two, Breaking Point Scenario, Lizardmen versus the new Wood Elves

    I played this opponent a lot in our previous map campaign. He had WoC then, and he is a very skilled player. I lost horribly. I did not roll too well, but my main problems were ignorance and stupidity. I only had the vaguest understanding of what the new Wood Elves could do, and I made two very boneheaded mistakes.

    He had a SC, two sisters with potent shooting and magical abilities that rode a dragon. He also had a mounted BSB and a mounted L4 Heavens caster in a potent Deathstar/Bus of cavalry with crazy saves, but not a lot of hitting power. He had six units of 10 Core archers. Two of them had an upgrade that made them ignore armor save penalties. Four of them had an upgrade that made them ignore to hit penalties. His L4 and BSB were in a fairly potent unit of Stag riding cavalry. He had five War Dancers to serve as a speed bump and two giant eagles.

    My Saurus Cowboy: Died round one, I stupidly deployed him solo hoping to fling him at the dragon, not realizing how easily Wood Elf shooting could bypass armor.

    My Chameleon Skinks: Died round one, their camouflage was useless against archers that ignore all to-hit penalties I was expecting this one, but I had no idea what to do about this.

    My Skirmishers: One was wiped out by shooting early. I think I may have thrown three or four javelins. One was panicked by shooting and slow to rally. It was then wiped out when it finally made it back into range late in the game.

    My Salamanders: One Salamander was killed by shooting very early. The other one survived long enough to nick an archer unit (one that ignored armor saves) with flame and panic them off the table. THEN it was charged by the dragon to make it flee and then wiped out by shooting late in the game.

    My Kroxigor: My Kroxigor weathered some minor shooting wounds to reach the enemy bus. I knew I was not going to break their steadfast so I concentrated my attacks to REALLY smash the enemy BSB. They were butchered horribly but they held on due to snake eyes. My opponent called that a game changing roll, but it only gave me false hope. The Temple Guard flank attack could not seal the deal and kill the unit.

    My Temple Guard: They were weakened considerably by shooting, but I was able to flank charge the enemy deathstar/bus that was engaged with my insanely courageous Kroxigor. I couldn’t seal the deal. The Ward Saves were just too much to overcome, and he managed to hex me with Curse of the Midnight Wind. My stupidest mistake of the game was not using Smoke and Mirrors when I had the chance to get the Slann’s butt out of the fire.

    My Saurus Warriors: The Wood Elves, don’t have an infinite amount of arrows, so the Saurus were left alone until all my Skirmishers were dead. They survived long enough to kill the War Dancers and a unit of archers and a unit of War Dancers, but they did not do as well as I hoped. My opponent was very good at playing the redirector game. Also at one point where I only needed a four inch overrun to hit another unit, I rolled a three.

    My Cohort Skinks: They bunkered my Skink Priest in a watch tower in the center of the board. I had a nice vantage point to let me cast magic missiles at anything I wanted, but the Wood Elves stayed out of javelin range of the tower and ignored my unit pretty much all game. My magic missiles couldn’t help me enough. I didn’t roll very good Winds of Magic rolls and my opponent was good at prioritizing dispels. I evenutally moved the Skinks out of the tower to try to back up my Saurus later but it was much too little too late.

    My Troglodon: My Troglodon was my MVP. Don’t make too much of this, since I still lost. He was left alone for the first half of the game because no one whose read the LM book fears Trogldons. I was able to take out the two giant eagles with a combination of vassal magic missles and acid spit. Then I managed to get the Trogldon deep in the enemy deployment zone. At which point they finally stopped ignoring him, but he took fifty or sixty arrow shots and only got one unsaved wound. He then singled handedly flank charged and then killed or ran down 20 archers. If the game ran seven turns he would have surely killed 10 more.

    I took out three archer units, five war dancers, and the enemy BSB. My opponent killed everything I had except my Troglodon and my Saurus Warriors. He got 500 bonus points for taking me to my breaking point. I didn’t complete any missions so I lost 35 to 0. The exact opposite of my first game where I won 35 to 0.

    My missions were 2 points: control more table quarters than your opponent (like I could beat a Wood Elf at movement!). 5 points: Kill all enemy flyers (I got the eagles but the self-healing dragon was not going to die due to S4 magic missiles) and 7 points: kill an enemy monster with the general’s unit survive (the dragon did not fight my TG until the TG were on death’s door).

    Round Three, Watchtower Scenario, Lizardmen versus Ogre Kingdoms

    The only time I ever played Ogres was as part of a team game years ago and my Dwarf allies did most of the actual Ogre killing (with magical buffs from me of course). I own the Ogre book and perused the Ogre forums. This list was thankfully light on cheese, but I think Ogres are very well equipped for Watch Tower scenario. My opponent said he thinks I would have won if it were a conventional game because I could have double teamed his main unit.

    He had roughly.

    A L4 Slaughter master with Lore of the Great Maw.
    A L1 Beast caster just there to cast Wyssans every round.
    A garden variety BSB

    Core was unit of 12 or so Sword and board Ogre Bulls (with the Wyssan’s caster), a unit of 12 or so Ironguts (with the other characters and the Banner of Eternal Flame).

    Special was a small unit of 3 maneaters, two Sabretusks (for dummy drops really), some mournfang cavalry riders, and 4 Leadbelchers and his one Rare choice was a single Ironblaster.

    My Cohort Skinks were garrisoning the tower. My Temple Guard were ready to occupy the tower when the Skinks left (whether they left voluntarily or the Ironguts kicked them out.) I put my Saurus Warriors and Kroxigor towards the right of the tower to defend against where the rest of the Ogres (mournfangs, Ironblasters, and Ogre Bulls) were massing. Most of my skirmishing things took the left of the tower to try to counter Ironblaster (mistake, I should have put my Kroxigor here).

    Turn One

    I started with my 20 Cohort Skinks guarding the watchtower. About fifteen of them were killed by the Ironguts and they failed their Stubborn Ld 5 test. If I were on the ball, I would have deployed my Slann outside of the Temple Guard, so that he could have been twelve inches from the tower. The Leadbelchers took some potshots at my Temple Guard. The Ironblaster tried to shoot my Troglodon and maybe go through him and hit my Temple Guard, but he rolled 1 to wound.

    The Mournfang Cavalry charged my Chameleon Skinks through a forest. Just as he was telling me “The nice thing about Monstrous Cavalry is you don’t have to worry about dangerous terrain tests much…” He rolled three ones out of six dice. When overran past the dead Chameleon Skinks he said “Perhaps I will have better luck if I roll the dice two at a time.” Immediately after he finished the sentence: snake eyes, followed by another one.

    My Skirmishers obliterated the two Sabretusks but they had already done their job during the deployment phase. My Salamanders took some pots shots at some Ogres but they just couldn’t inflict many wounds. My Temple Guard charged the tower. I won the building assault by a small margin but it was clear with the BSB in the tower I was not going to retake it unless every last Ogre was dead. My Kroxigors positioned themselves to receive the Mournfangs. My Troglodon positioned itself to set up a good roar next turn when the Temple Guard and Saurus Warriors would be fighting simultaneously. He also tried to spit on someone but failed. My magic phase saw me kill another Mournfang with some wounds to spare due to Searing Doom (thank you Skink Priest vassal!). Then I threw some javelins at the last Mournfang who got poor saving throws and died.

    Turn Two

    The Ogre Bulls charged my Saurus who held thanks to the Slann being nearby. The Ironblaster charged my female Salamander who decided discretion was the better part of valor and fled. The Leadbelchers shot at my Kroxigor. I stopped Wyssans but the tower Ogres had a buff or two from the Lore of the Great Maw.

    My female Salamander failed to rally and kept running. I charged the tower again, Melkoth’s Miasma and Iceshard Blizzard more or less made up for the buffs the Ogres had. I won combat again, but there were still lots of ogres in my tower. My Skirmishers fired a lot of javelins at the Ironblaster and Leadbelchers but did next to nothing. My magic missiles weren’t much better. In hindsight I should have buffed the Saurus Warriors instead. They lost combat by a modest margin and were broken and run down.

    Turn Three

    The Ironblaster turned towards my Skirmishers and killed one or two with grapeshot. The Maneaters finally had a good position to hit my Temple Guard so they charged them. The leadbelchers whiffed their shooting. I don’t remember if the Ogre Bulls charged my Kroxigor during the Ogre turn or if I charged them, but I remember we drew a lot or had one side win by one point. I did not do great with Temple Guard, I lost the combat by a decent margin. Though I knew I could beat the Maneaters by attrition, I knew I was not going to have enough Temple Guard bodies to throw at the tower.

    My female Salamander fled the table. My male Salamander flank charged the Maneaters. My Troglodon charged the Leadbelchers (I won slightly but the belcher’s held). My left most Skirmishers got a single wound on the Ironblaster. My right most Skirmishers now had nothing to do, so they exited the building they were hiding in.

    Turn Four

    My left most Skirmishers hoped for a lucky stand and shoot against the Ironblaster’s inevitable charge, but they whiffed their shooting then were crushed flat under the Rhinox’s hooves. My Troglodon beat the Leadbelchers and ran them down (the roar helped). With the help of the Troglodon’s roar and Icehard Blizzard, my Kroxigor beat the Ogre Bulls, but they were steadfast so they held.

    I had maybe five Temple Guard left, so I did not charge the tower. The Salamander and surviving Skinks opened up on the tower with shooting and I cast several magic missiles at the tower (flaming is nice for buildings) in the hope that my Kroxigor would finally be able to beat the Ogre Bulls and assault the tower in turn five or maybe six. Unfortunately my surviving Kroxigor rolled poorly and were run down. Even more unfortunately, my Slann got double sixes on a two dice spell. I rolled a 3 on the miscast chart. That meant Soul of Stone’s one point slide would not prevent me from having the Calamitous Detonation. The Vortex slurped up my Slann and the explosion killed my Temple Guard. I used my remaining dice to cast Uranon’s Thunderbolt on the tower from my Skink and he too miscast and was sucked into a vortex.

    Turn Five

    There was really nothing left for my opponent to do. He moved his Ironblaster to try shoot the Troglodon in case there was a turn six. The Ogre Bulls pointed themselves at whatever surviving unit I could see.

    I threw some Javelins and Salamander fire at something. Then we rolled to see if the game ended on turn 5 and it did. I lost 2 to 18 and didn’t get any bonus points for special objectives. My opponent I think got 5 bonus points, maybe 7. I ended up with 37 points. I believe the first and second players got 77 and 76 points, Wood Elves and Vampire Counts. I don’t remember who was first and who was second, probably Wood Elves.

    Overall Impressions

    So my closing thoughts are as follows:

    I’ve fielded Kroxigor in many battles. It’s probably the Special choice I take most often other than Temple Guard, and they very rarely make me happy. I own 20 Kroxigor. I either need to sell some of them or drastically change how I use them. Mainly my own infantry blocks get in their way or visa versa. In the near future. I’m going to try fielding large units of Kroxigor instead of Temple Guard (with either a solo Slann or no Slann) and see how it goes.

    I REALLY need to get my hands on a Wood Elf book, or bug Godswearhats to make a new LM versus WEs Tactica. They constantly surprised me.
    I usually take the Banner of Eternal Flame on my Temple Guard on every tournament list. I decided not to this game. That could have helped me a lot in retaking the Watchtower. Not only are the rerolls nice for a building, but the Ogres favorite spell bestowed Regeneration.

    Every time you cast a Shadow spell, ask yourself, “Should I consider using Smoke and Mirrors?”

    I am beginning to doubt Soul of Stone is worthwhile. Three of the last four miscasts I rolled, a one point slide changed NOTHING. Stupid Vortex. Becalming Cognition is great though. I used it every game at least once and I’m not planning to take a Slann without it. Being able to safely take risks with your dispel dice is worth a couple dispel scrolls. The Book of Ashur wasn’t bad but I don’t see it replacing the Channeling Staff and Harmonic Convergence.

    The other LM player came in last. I don’t think I’d want to take Tet in conjunction with a WD or High Magic Lore Master. 15 spells is too much for 2 to 12 power dice. I suffered in a map campaign game I lost badly when I played a High Magic lore master, a Metal Slann, and two level two Skink Priests. Granted this was two armies combined into one, but I think I’m going to draw the line in the future. Even in grand armies, I think anything more than 12 spells is a bad idea.

    The Troglodon was my MVP. I’m going to stop bad mouthing the Troglodon or perhaps badmouth it some more. My Troglodon survived every game. This may have been due in part to my opponents not viewing it as a threat due to me (and other people) talking about the Troglodon’s weakness. My Lizardmen collection is truly insane so I should not buy any more LM models till I have a smaller backlog of unassembled models, but if I bought something else, I think I might consider a SECOND Troglodon. Maybe I’ll proxy my Carnosaur as a second Troglodon and try that out. I got more vassal action out of the Troglodon then the Skink Priest (which I had to deploy more defensively) and the roar was nice. I think given how heavily I am leaning on PF units these days, a pair of Troglodons would give me a lot of flexibility.
     
  2. StealthKnightSteg
    Razordon

    StealthKnightSteg Well-Known Member

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    Re: Three Game Tournament, 2500 points versus LM, WE, and Wo

    nice sume up of your tournament! Gave me some insights on using my units!

    Bad turn of events that both the slann and the priest went down the hole in the same phase none the less!
     
  3. Sleboda
    Troglodon

    Sleboda Active Member

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    Re: Three Game Tournament, 2500 points versus LM, WE, and Wo


    => Did the TO publish an event-specific rules errata (or at least FAQ doc) so that all players knew that they might be facing this possibility? If not, I think you had real reason to claim your opponent had an illegal list.

    EDIT: Also, (and this is not to start a hissy fit - just to get insight on the results and your thoughts), I saw your comments on the Trog. How was PF played?

    Another thing - I agree with you on number of spells. Variety is a strength, to be sure, but even in my TK lists, I have access to only about 8 spells at 3000 points and never seem to even attempt more than 4 per turn max.
     
  4. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    Re: Three Game Tournament, 2500 points versus LM, WE, and Wo

    Our groups main organizers go by the system of public lists, private magic items and upgrades.

    So, everyone knows whether I took javelins or blowpipes on my Skirmishers and no one knows whether or not I gave my Cohort poison. No one knew my Slann had the book of Ashur until after I got +5.

    Wood Elf magic arrows are in the same boat.

    To answer the predatory fighter question.

    In round one, I never used it. My PF units never got in a difficult match and by the end of the game my Troglodon was pretty much by himself.

    Round two, I ended up using it just on the Troglodon to REALLY kill archers.

    Round three I got great mileage boosting my TG, Kroxigor, and the Troglodon itself in three separate combats. Sadly everyone was steadfast so it didn't turn things around.

    In most cases I think I waited too long. It's probably better to use your roar early and then wish you used it in a later round then hold it as an ace in the whole and not use it all battle.

    The main thing a Troglodon brings to the table is an Arcane Vassal that doesn't have to run from the smallest enemy threat. Also you if you don't finish off your magic missile target you can spit acid on it.
     
  5. Sunchax
    Saurus

    Sunchax Member

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    Re: Three Game Tournament, 2500 points versus LM, WE, and Wo

    Maybe you could run your slann with skink skirmishers instead of templeguards if you want to commit to kroxigors? Aweslme battlereport! Thanks alot!
     
  6. Sleboda
    Troglodon

    Sleboda Active Member

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    Re: Three Game Tournament, 2500 points versus LM, WE, and Wo


    => Thank you, but I think you may have misunderstood what I was asking.

    On the arrows - His list may have been illegal because those arrows are specifically called out as Enchanted Items, and you cannot repeat magic items in a list. There's a huge debate over it, but at the moment it appears that the stronger argument, from a rules perspective, is against allowing repeated choices. This is why I was asking if your event had made a ruling ahead of time.

    On PF - My question was about how the event rules on allowing PF in rear ranks. If it was allowed, I can see how the Trog might have been better for you, but if not, well, let's just say I have a hard time getting my poor Trog to pull his weight.
     
  7. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    Re: Three Game Tournament, 2500 points versus LM, WE, and Wo

    The same organizer who said PF applies to all supporting attacks also said WEs could take as many duplicate arrow upgrades as they want. Interestingly enough, this is the one gaming group I've seen where NO ONE argues the other PF thing. There are one or two people who disagree with the WE ruling. I'm not among them, I don't want to rock the boat on this one. Since they are Core, I think it's unreasonable to force each Core unit to take something different.

    I doubt the Troglodon's roar really hinges on supporting PF attacks. Really what's important is that you have multiple PF units fighting in close proximity at the same time. Though I guess if I ever get arround to hording my Kroxigor I may sing a different tune...
     
  8. Eladimir
    Salamander

    Eladimir New Member

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    Re: Three Game Tournament, 2500 points versus LM, WE, and Wo

    Good report. Certainly makes me nervous playing the new wood elves.

    I'm finally convinced to try wandering deliberations, I've been sticking with loremaster high and casting spells to get those signature ones and if you get bad magic phases early nothing gets off and you never get what you want.

    And sweet jesus bad luck on the miscasts. Two casters gone in one round ouch.

    I like the slann but I often wish I could just take a normal 235 level 4 naked instead of the nearly minimum 400 point slann.
     

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