What mini wargames are you playing?

[- Q -]

What's popular around these parts?

What's the best wargame in the fantasy genre?

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

What's the best wargame in the fantasy genre?

Warhammer Fantasy Battles 8th Edition. Accept no substitute.

 

[- Q -]

Warhammer Fantasy Battles 8th Edition. Accept no substitute.

What factors make it better than the other games?

Also, I can't seem to find it on the Warhammer website. Can anyone direct me to it?

 

[Imrahil]

Also, I can't seem to find it on the Warhammer website. Can anyone direct me to it?

You are right about that, Warhammer Fantasy Battles 8th Edition is the last fantasy version of Warhammer before the switch to Warhammer Age of Sigmar. Games Workshop stopped selling the game, but a lot of players kept with it and swore off the new Age of Sigmar version.

Recently GW released Warhammer The Old World, trying to go back to the Warhammer Fantasy Battle style.
Some of the old models (also playable in 8th edition) will return.
For a rulebook of 8th edition you will have to search on ebay or an other secondhand market.

Grrr, !mrahil

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

What factors make it better than the other games?

It is the best game in terms of tactical complexity. If we compare GW's three full-sized fantasy games (excluding LOTR/Hobbit, which I know little about), Warhammer Fantasy is the most tactically robust, AoS is the most simplistic and TOW sits somewhere between the two.

AoS would admittedly hold the advantage in terms of model availability.

Also, I can't seem to find it on the Warhammer website. Can anyone direct me to it?

As @Imrahil stated, Warhammer Fantasy Battles (WHFB) was discontinued and replaced by AoS back in 2015. Rulebooks can only be found second hand at this point, although pdfs do float around the internet.

As for models, TOW and WHFB share the same ones (and there is also some overlap with Age of Sigmar). TOW is slowly reintroducing previously discontinued models, but it is a slow process. Plus, GW have decided that TOW will only feature 9 of the 16 WHFB armies. So armies that aren't featured are highly unlikely to have discontinued models reintroduced.

but a lot of players kept with it

 

[- Q -]

Thanks @Imrahil and @NIGHTBRINGER . So do guys play 8th edition exclusively or do you play other wargames as well?

What is the most popular game on this forum?

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

So do guys play 8th edition exclusively or do you play other wargames as well?

Only 8th edition WHFB for me. I used to play 40k way back in the day, but I've since sold all my 40k armies.

What is the most popular game on this forum?

If you had asked me this question a couple months ago, I would have answered AoS without hesitation. Earlier this year though, TOW was released and AoS discussion has absolutely cratered since its arrival. TOW of course benefits from being the "new release", so it's tough to predict what kind of legs it will have in the long run... especially since the Lizardmen are not one of the 9 featured factions of TOW. As such, should their rules be left to become obsolete (as GW themselves have pretty much claimed), TOW discussion on this forum could dwindle to non-existence. 8th edition seems to have a very small, but fairly consistent trickle of forum engagement, but has not been the dominant game on the forum since its cancelation. There is considerably more 8th edition conversation over on the Eighth Edition for Life Warhammer Forum.

In short, things are in flux right now.

 

[- Q -]

What about Kings of War? Is it a good game? I see that there is a section for it on the forum, but not that much activity.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Earlier this year though, TOW was released and AoS discussion has absolutely cratered since its arrival.

Anyone else notice this? @Imrahil @Killer Angel @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl

The AoS sub-forum is as quiet as a tomb. I get that TOW has the new factor, but I'm frankly shocked to see just how much AoS discussion has dropped off. I'm guessing it will rebound in time, but at the current moment in time, WHFB 8th has more new content on the forum than AoS does!

What about Kings of War? Is it a good game? I see that there is a section for it on the forum, but not that much activity.

I've never played it. I haven't met anyone in person who plays it. However, from what I've heard, it is a decent game, but there seems to be no interest for it on this forum.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

What's the best wargame in the fantasy genre?

Currently for me it's earlier Editions of Fantasy, but TOW looks even more appealing on paper, I'm looking forward to having my first games of it.

Thanks @Imrahil and @NIGHTBRINGER . So do guys play 8th edition exclusively or do you play other wargames as well?

I play:

• Warhammer Fantasy 7th and 8th Edition
• 40K 5th and 6th Edition
• Older editions of Middle Earth Strategy Battle Game
• SPQR (Ancient historical warband-level game)
• The Kingdom is Ours (English Civil War mass battle game)
• Star Wars X-Wing 1st Edition

I've also dabbled a bit in Star Trek Attack Wing and am beginning the process of getting into TOW.

Earlier this year though, TOW was released and AoS discussion has absolutely cratered since its arrival.

Anyone else notice this? @Imrahil @Killer Angel @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl

The AoS sub-forum is as quiet as a tomb. I get that TOW has the new factor, but I'm frankly shocked to see just how much AoS discussion has dropped off. I'm guessing it will rebound in time, but at the current moment in time, WHFB 8th has more new content on the forum than AoS does!

Most interesting - I haven't looked at the AoS subforum in a long time, but still most interesting.

Of course it could be for a variety of reasons:

• AoS Discussion could have simply moved from here to TGA, the main AoS forum which is a lot bigger and more active, or one or more Facebook groups relating to AoS Lizardmen
• The AoS contingent of players may just be too busy with their lives in the real world to post
• Or, as you've said above, it could actually be that TOW is luring in people away from AoS... I've certainly heard rumours of AoS players becoming more and more salty towards TOW (ironically in a mirror image of Warhammer Fantasy players being salty about AoS when it first came out), maybe this is the reason.

What about Kings of War? Is it a good game? I see that there is a section for it on the forum, but not that much activity.

I've never played it. I haven't met anyone in person who plays it. However, from what I've heard, it is a decent game, but there seems to be no interest for it on this forum.

I played KOW once a while back... it's a rank-and-flank game so has all the tactical quality of any other rank-and-flank game, but it's a strange one in that casualties do not take the form of removed models but are instead just 'damage' points marked on units with counters that gradually add up to make it more and more difficult for a unit to stay on the battlefield, until it ultimately routs and the entire unit is removed. Certainly a different way of simulating a rank-and-flank battle, and one that generally appeals to a different audience to Warhammer Fantasy fans.

Of course, KOW has been on the back foot ever since its biggest ambassador on this forum, @Itepixcauh, vanished a while back. Whether the great man will make a comeback remains to be seen, but if he does, at least I've pointed him to this thread so he can get back to his main job of advertising KOW to everyone here.

Of course, @- Q - has asked us all this, without ever telling us what games he plays - spill the beans, my friend!

 

[Killer Angel]

The AoS sub-forum is as quiet as a tomb. I get that TOW has the new factor, but I'm frankly shocked to see just how much AoS discussion has dropped off. I'm guessing it will rebound in time, but at the current moment in time, WHFB 8th has more new content on the forum than AoS does!

You know what? i have little to no idea.
Once i was very active in that particular subforum (tactica threads, Q&A, and so on), but i have a lot of things that hamper my life, ad as consequence i have abandoned AoS and i play almost exclusively 40k (following the current trend in my gaming group), and only now i'm back to fantasy, playing a couple of tow games, so my contribution to fantasy is limited to stories and painting contests (which atm is not a small thing for me, and even that cannot be counted in the AoS sub-forum)
Lustria overall seems full of life, but i honestly have no idea what's going on in the AoS subforum.

 

[- Q -]

I play:

• Warhammer Fantasy 7th and 8th Edition
• 40K 5th and 6th Edition
• Older editions of Middle Earth Strategy Battle Game
• SPQR (Ancient historical warband-level game)
• The Kingdom is Ours (English Civil War mass battle game)
• Star Wars X-Wing 1st Edition

I've also dabbled a bit in Star Trek Attack Wing and am beginning the process of getting into TOW.

That is an impressive list of games. You must have a great memory to be able to juggle all those rules sets!

Of course, @- Q - has asked us all this, without ever telling us what games he plays - spill the beans, my friend!

I'm in the market for a game. At the moment I'm not too familiar with any of them. Sort of fell into a bunch of Games Workshop Lizard models and I am hoping to delve into their story and background setting. It will probably be some time before I embark on actually playing a game, but I wouldn't mind dipping my toes into a rule set. Now I just have to pick one. Turns out there are far more to choose from than I would have thought.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

i have abandoned AoS

(kidding of course)

You know what? i have little to no idea.

It's quite perplexing to me. I'm no fan of AoS (obviously), but I would have thought it to be far more resilient.

AoS Discussion could have simply moved from here to TGA, the main AoS forum which is a lot bigger and more active, or one or more Facebook groups relating to AoS Lizardmen

That is a fair possibility. We did see the same with T9A many years ago.

Lustria overall seems full of life, but i honestly have no idea what's going on in the AoS subforum.

I often wonder if it is a large number of people making posts or a relatively smaller group who post more frequently. For instance, you yourself, account for over 3% of all posts ever made on Lustria Online.

Turns out there are far more to choose from than I would have thought.

But only one right choice!

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

but it's a strange one in that casualties do not take the form of removed models but are instead just 'damage' points marked on units with counters that gradually add up to make it more and more difficult for a unit to stay on the battlefield, until it ultimately routs and the entire unit is removed.

From a modeling perspective I find this concept highly intriguing. Ranking things up in 8th edition is a nightmare. My unit Chaos Trolls are extremely cramped together and my Infernal Guard are even worse. The idea of being able to build diorama-like units sounds like a lot of fun and much more stress free. Constructing a unit would be part model building and part terrain making... I like that.

On a side note, TOW's increase of base sizes is the one area where I feel it has an advantage over 8th edition WHFB (assuming of course that TOW doesn't eventually release new miniatures with scale creep and negate the advantage).

 

[- Q -]

Currently for me it's earlier Editions of Fantasy, but TOW looks even more appealing on paper, I'm looking forward to having my first games of it.

What makes The Old World better than Warhammer Fantasy? And why are earlier editions of Warhammer Fantasy better than more recent ones?

Newbie question: does Age of Sigmar, Warhammer Fantasy (8th or earlier) and The Old World use the same Lizardmen (Seraphon?) models or different ones?

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

What makes The Old World better than Warhammer Fantasy? And why are earlier editions of Warhammer Fantasy better than more recent ones?

When I referred to 'earlier Editions', I meant the two Editions immediately prior to (i.e. earlier than) TOW, 7th and 8th, which are good games in their own right.

With regards to TOW looking better to me on paper, there are a number of little things that really enhance the rank-and-flank side of its gameplay above previous Editions, a fair few of which had their origins in Warhammer Ancient Battles:

• Marching Column (which gives the option to triple march at the cost of not being able to charge or count rank bonus) vs Combat Order (moving at normal speed but also being able to charge and count rank bonus)
• Regular Infantry vs Heavy Infantry and Light Cavalry vs Heavy Cavalry (elite units needing less models to count ranks due to their superior prowess and reduced numbers)
• Close Order vs Open Order (Open Order giving a unit advantages in manoeuvrability and traversing terrain at the cost of Close Order units getting an extra point of combat resolution down to being more orderly)
• Return of difficult terrain and more realistic rules for different terrain features (compared to 8th's 'Mysterious Terrain' rules which should have just been left for players to come up with as house rules for a bit of fun, rather than as hard-and-fast replacements to serious terrain rules)
• Return of combat resolution bonus from having the high ground (a pretty basic tactical advantage which 8th completely forgot about)
• Armies of Infamy offering alternative ways to play the same army without taking over as the defacto competitive option (as Age of Sigmar's Battalions are)
• Units defeated in combat potentially either simply giving ground (shuffling back a couple of inches) or Falling Back in Good Order (withdrawing temporarily and then immediately rallying) rather than outright fleeing, which gives more different ongoing combat situations

Of course, this did come hand-in-hand with a reduction of the power and complexity of the Magic rules in the game, primarily as means of balancing out this increase in complexity elsewhere. Some see it as a downgrade and portray TOW as "less tactical" as a result, particularly those who are big fans of the magic systems from previous Editions, but it's all down to differences of opinion - I'm really not bothered about it myself, for me Magic has always been just a fun extra, and I'd rather that the detail be moved to greater tactical nuance in movement and formations as TOW offers.

Newbie question: does Age of Sigmar, Warhammer Fantasy (8th or earlier) and The Old World use the same Lizardmen (Seraphon?) models or different ones?

Up until recently they all used the same models, but when the new AoS range for them came out last year it introduced some new models that wouldn't fit in Warhammer Fantasy or TOW (the Raptadon Hunters/Chargers, which introduced a new unit that neither of those games has rules for, and the Aggrodon Lancers, which are sized-up versions of Saurus Cavalry that are too big to be used as the latter). However a lot of the range still can be used for any of those games.

 

[- Q -]

When I referred to 'earlier Editions', I meant the two Editions immediately prior to (i.e. earlier than) TOW, 7th and 8th, which are good games in their own right.

With regards to TOW looking better to me on paper, there are a number of little things that really enhance the rank-and-flank side of its gameplay above previous Editions, a fair few of which had their origins in Warhammer Ancient Battles:

• Marching Column (which gives the option to triple march at the cost of not being able to charge or count rank bonus) vs Combat Order (moving at normal speed but also being able to charge and count rank bonus)
• Regular Infantry vs Heavy Infantry and Light Cavalry vs Heavy Cavalry (elite units needing less models to count ranks due to their superior prowess and reduced numbers)
• Close Order vs Open Order (Open Order giving a unit advantages in manoeuvrability and traversing terrain at the cost of Close Order units getting an extra point of combat resolution down to being more orderly)
• Return of difficult terrain and more realistic rules for different terrain features (compared to 8th's 'Mysterious Terrain' rules which should have just been left for players to come up with as house rules for a bit of fun, rather than as hard-and-fast replacements to serious terrain rules)
• Return of combat resolution bonus from having the high ground (a pretty basic tactical advantage which 8th completely forgot about)
• Armies of Infamy offering alternative ways to play the same army without taking over as the defacto competitive option (as Age of Sigmar's Battalions are)
• Units defeated in combat potentially either simply giving ground (shuffling back a couple of inches) or Falling Back in Good Order (withdrawing temporarily and then immediately rallying) rather than outright fleeing, which gives more different ongoing combat situations

Of course, this did come hand-in-hand with a reduction of the power and complexity of the Magic rules in the game, primarily as means of balancing out this increase in complexity elsewhere. Some see it as a downgrade and portray TOW as "less tactical" as a result, particularly those who are big fans of the magic systems from previous Editions, but it's all down to differences of opinion - I'm really not bothered about it myself, for me Magic has always been just a fun extra, and I'd rather that the detail be moved to greater tactical nuance in movement and formations as TOW offers.

Thank you for all that great info!

Up until recently they all used the same models, but when the new AoS range for them came out last year it introduced some new models that wouldn't fit in Warhammer Fantasy or TOW (the Raptadon Hunters/Chargers, which introduced a new unit that neither of those games has rules for, and the Aggrodon Lancers, which are sized-up versions of Saurus Cavalry that are too big to be used as the latter). However a lot of the range still can be used for any of those games.

But the basing is different, right? Age of Sigmar uses rounds, while both Warhammer Fantasy and The Old World use square bases? So if I were to base on squares I'd get to potentially play two games instead of one with the same models.

I don't see a lot of love for Age of Sigmar on this thread. I guess it isn't as good of a game? Some really nice looking armies though. Looks like fun, but I don't know nearly as much about it as you guys do.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

But the basing is different, right? Age of Sigmar uses rounds, while both Warhammer Fantasy and The Old World use square bases?

Correct.

So if I were to base on squares I'd get to potentially play two games instead of one with the same models.

Certainly in friendly games your opponents may be willing to allow you to use square-based models in AoS games, but not in tournaments, which are pretty strict on players using the correct round/oval bases.

I don't see a lot of love for Age of Sigmar on this thread. I guess it isn't as good of a game? Some really nice looking armies though. Looks like fun, but I don't know nearly as much about it as you guys do.

I briefly showed some interest in AoS during much of the 2nd Edition era, when it seemed quite appealing as a fun, fast and furious game that could be played quickly, but since 3rd Edition added a heap of bureaucracy to the rules and then TOW arrived, I doubt I'll be tempted by it again.

Admittedly you are chatting with all the folk on one side of the fence right now, the AoS side of the forum largely doesn't seem to have seen this thread (but then it's not surprising as it seems they've not been so active here as a whole in recent times).

@Killer Angel as someone who has played both a Fantasy and AoS a lot, perhaps you'd care to enlighten our friend further?

 

[Killer Angel]

@Killer Angel as someone who has played both a Fantasy and AoS a lot, perhaps you'd care to enlighten our friend further?

Well, AoS and WFHB / ToW are totally different games.

AoS is basically a "skirmish", the units exist as entity with no "facing". There's no direction, the coherency between models is simply keeping them near to each other. you move, see and shoot at 360°. Think to AoS as 40k in that regard.
Usually it's a game focused a lot on stacking bonuses and auras. It's simple but can be a lot of fun (or at least, 2nd edition was)

Old Fantasy is a rank & files games, units move with severe restrictions, shooting, move, charges and shooting are all limited to your frontal arc. The skill required to move and cohordinate your troops is the very essence of the game. It can be played (and with effective success) in a simple way, but usually requires more attention.

Both games need the proper mind setting to enjoy them.

 

[Warden]

Currently the only game I am regularily playing is Infinity. Really love the game; you don't ever had huge stretches of the game where you are sitting around waiting to take armor saves when your opponent kills half your dudes on the first turn. Love the ARO (automatic reaction order) system.



I started wargaming with Warhammer Fantasy with my brother and uncle, but haven't played that game since the End Times. I am hoping to play a game someday when my brother finishes painting his four treemen though.

Also played a bunch of Mordheim one-off games, and a smattering of Kill Team and Necromunda.