What Would YOU Add to Chaos if Hired as a Writer?

[J.Logan]

Hypothetical; GeeDubs have decided to outsource some writing of their lore, and for whatever reason, the task has fallen squarely upon YOUR shoulders. You have been given one directive: Add something to Chaos Lore.

Me? While the easy answer would be to re-invigorate Malice/Malal and other minor gods, that's too easy. I would explore the idea of a Chaos Primordial.

To describe such a concept, I would say:

Imagine Chaos as an ocean, infinite in scope. We as mortals only ever glimpse the surface of this ocean. Those who submit to Chaos might be permitted to look beneath the surface. But there are limits to how deep one can get before they die, regardless of preparations.

The many gods and godlike beings of Chaos are whirlpools in this ocean. There are so many, and combined with the tides, there is no aspect of the surface of this ocean that has not at some point interacted with these whirlpools.

Chaos Primordial, however, is the deepest, darkest recesses of this ocean, so deep that not even the most powerful of whirlpools disturbs those waters. And in those depths are things that are outside the usual ecology of the ocean as we usually see it.

Chaos Primordial is arguably a more raw, pure form of Chaos. It isn't Chaos Undivided. It would be more accurate to call Chaos Primordial a glimpse of Chaos PREdivided.

Important to note that in my mind, Primordial is not inherently more powerful than Chaos as we know it. The various gods of Chaos don't fear the Primordial deep, even if they are disquieted by it. Even by the standards of Chaos, it is OTHER, it is alien. It is also where daemons that are not aspects of the gods dwell; neutral to the Great Game. It is very rare that the mortal realms would encounter a daemon of Chaos Primordial, but on occasion one might manifest.

Also, in my mind, it is daemons of Chaos Primordial that the Chaos Dwarfs grab and forcibly bind to their machines. Because we all know that the gods of Chaos would not tolerate any of THEIRS being desecrated in such a way, whereas daemons that don't have a patron god are free game.

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To be clear, Chaos Primordial is not a "this is how I bring actual Cthulhu Mythos to Warhammer; if I ever did that, Cthulhu mythos would actually be something outside of Chaos, a sort of outside context problem. Like how in 40k the Tyranids are an outside context problem to the galaxy (which I confess I find hilarious; we have a literal hell and wars and corruption of souls of aliens and humans, and then from outside the galaxy beyond even Chaos's sight come a ravenous horde of aliens that even has the forces of Hell pausing to go "excuse me, wut?)

I'm betting this is a subject that our resident meme-monkey @NIGHTBRINGER will be leaping forth to contribute to. He does so enjoy speaking about marking us all.

 

[BrotherSutek]

I would like that as I do love Cthulhu but don't want it in my warhammer. I do like Malal and one of the guys I used to play against had an incredible chaos mortals army he painted. Honestly I'm not sure what I'd like other than giving us more variety, Chaos shouldn't be so standard.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

I'd certainly want to try and make Malal a more important player in the Warhammer Fantasy world and the 40K galaxy. He's just such an interesting idea, an example of how, for Chaos to truly be Chaos, it must ignore every last rule of law in existence, including the idea of Chaos being a united front. Chaos is Chaos... and there is nothing more chaotic than for a house to be divided amongst itself. A god that grows in power when the other Dark Gods all scheme and war against one another, and purposefully targets their forces as part of his plan.

Not to mention that he would serve as a very real temptation for all those groups that are dedicated to destroying Chaos to the point it takes over their lives - the Grey Knights, Inquisitors, Empire Witch Hunters and the like - who would normally brush off the promises of the other deities with ease.

"Oh, you don't know me, mortal... but I, like you, despise the Dark Gods, and I would like to help you scupper their plans and destroy their forces.

Just pledge yourself to me first."


Also though, I'd like to do two things...

* Reintroduce Fimir to Warhammer Fantasy. I already have my own headcanon for them - though admittedly this headcanon steers them away from the main Chaos deities (and definitely doesn't make them just a pawn of the Norse, easily the worst thing shoehorned into Warhammer Total War), based on how in the last known official lore the Chaos Gods ditched them for Man and the Fimir continue to resent that, but they were still creations of Chaos in the first place and so count as an addition to the wider lore of Chaos. Also their new main god they worship in said headcanon, Balor, could be introduced as another minor Chaos god. Perhaps he could even be Malal in a different form .
* Fully develop the Snakemen of Khuresh into another Chaotic faction (again in Warhammer Fantasy). These started out in the very early days of Warhammer as a few metal 'Chaos Snakeman' models available for the overarching 'Chaos' faction at the time, before not being heard from again for a long time. However, since then fans have been playing around with a reinvention of them for the present-day Warhammer Fantasy setting through a Total War mod and an accompanying collection of lore:
https://www.worldanvil.com/w/warhammer-fan-concept3A-hinterlands-of-khuresh-furious-ming

The faction in its revived form is essentially the closest thing to Chaos Lizardmen - the Snakemen having been former creations of the Old Ones that have been corrupted by Chaos energy - who invert their former masters' capacity for scientific experimentation and manipulation to be master torturers and fleshcrafters on the level of the Dark Eldar Haemonculi, with an aesthetic basis in south east Asian cultures and myths. A great idea for another non-human faction, who'd be a great addition to TOW in particular with the new focus on Cathay. To be honest they'd have been a far more interesting antagonist faction for the new upcoming boxed game than Warriors of Chaos (have the TOW team been taking lessons from the Horus Heresy boys and the Middle-Earth team in treating all fantasy settings like Westeros?).

 

[J.Logan]

I'd certainly want to try and make Malal a more important player in the Warhammer Fantasy world and the 40K galaxy

I think the problem is that Malal's schtick has since been filled with Be'lakor as the anti-Chaos Chaos force. I know it's not the same...

I do like how you would revitalise Malal though. Nicely thought out.

As to the Fimir, I honestly don't know much about them. I know OF them, I know they were the first followers, but other than that?

I can certainly get behind your idea of developing the Snakemen.

have the TOW team been taking lessons from the Horus Heresy boys and the Middle-Earth team in treating all fantasy settings like Westeros?

It... really does feel that way, doesn't it?

 

[BrotherSutek]

I'd like the fimir be the scary nasty things they were on Albion, if I'm remembering correctly, rather than any Norse thing.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

I'd like the fimir be the scary nasty things they were on Albion, if I'm remembering correctly, rather than any Norse thing.

That would certainly be my intention in rewriting them back into the canon. Indeed, in the TOW Army List I am writing for them I am setting them up as the main foe for my Albion list, and that the Fimir have grown in power since Hybrasille, an island off Albion (mentioned in the TOW rulebook as one that keeps magically disappearing and appearing) I'm casting as not-Ireland and the cursed boggy homeland of the Fimir, has returned to the world.

 

[BrotherSutek]

That would certainly be my intention in rewriting them back into the canon. Indeed, in the TOW Army List I am writing for them I am setting them up as the main foe for my Albion list, and that the Fimir have grown in power since Hybrasille, an island off Albion (mentioned in the TOW rulebook as one that keeps magically disappearing and appearing) I'm casting as not-Ireland and the cursed boggy homeland of the Fimir, has returned to the world.

I liked the work Warhammer Armies Project did for them. The bad, actually worse than beastmen, things they do made them more realistic and less cartoony.

 

[Tk'ya'pyk]

....I would rather write about a Chaos faction that is basically a normal village that hides their allegiance to the Chaos Powers and how they've done so over the years in little vingettes. "Oh, a Witch Hunter is here? Hmm, well, we'll have to hide things, but if he digs too deep he's going to have to have a little accident..."

 

[J.Logan]

I liked the work Warhammer Armies Project did for them. The bad, actually worse than beastmen, things they do made them more realistic and less cartoony.

How did the Armies Project get around the "race of rapists" reputation the Fimir have? (Yes, I just recently learnt that little tidbit, much to me bemusement) Did they roll with it, or try to come up with a different horrific act that they do on the regular?

....I would rather write about a Chaos faction that is basically a normal village that hides their allegiance to the Chaos Powers and how they've done so over the years in little vingettes. "Oh, a Witch Hunter is here? Hmm, well, we'll have to hide things, but if he digs too deep he's going to have to have a little accident..."

So, Warhammer Innsmouth?

I'm not being sarcastic there. Shadow Over Innsmouth is sort of the archetypical "cult that the entire town/village is a part of" story for me. So it's the first place my mind goes when somebody describes a village hiding their allegiance like that. Though I imagine the trope is older than that.

 

[BrotherSutek]

How did the Armies Project get around the "race of rapists" reputation the Fimir have? (Yes, I just recently learnt that little tidbit, much to me bemusement) Did they roll with it, or try to come up with a different horrific act that they do on the regular?



So, Warhammer Innsmouth?

I'm not being sarcastic there. Shadow Over Innsmouth is sort of the archetypical "cult that the entire town/village is a part of" story for me. So it's the first place my mind goes when somebody describes a village hiding their allegiance like that. Though I imagine the trope is older than that.

They rolled with it from what I remember. They didn't shy away from how evil on all levels the fimir are.