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AoS Whats better ripperdactyl or chameleon skinks?

Discussion in 'Seraphon Tactics' started by PurpleandGold, Nov 12, 2017.

  1. Aginor
    Skink Priest

    Aginor Well-Known Member

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    Well you could make the argument that the chameleons are neither charging nor moving, they are set up there.... :D
    (and no I think you shouldn't, but the rules as written don't really disallow it do they?)
     
  2. Canas
    Stegadon

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    Probably, the advantages of the vortex aren't that big, it's only a +1 to rolls and double range alongside protection from (most/all) melee attackers. A +1 isn't exceptionally good, and double range really only becomes usefull when you combine it with very specific spells like Kroak's special spell, which then gets an absolutly absurd area of effect. What's the tzeentch guys that really like it?

    But yea, seems to be a common theme in AoS that stuff disproportionally benefits a few and those end up being oppressive. Which they then "fix" by throwing a rule at all of em and breaking the ones that were fine (e.g. rule of one "breaking" special abilities that already had diminishing returns by not allowing them to trigger multiple times....)

    Do chameleons appear count as "moving" what about teleporting a unit? Technicly it's not moving.
     
  3. Arawn
    Saurus

    Arawn Member

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    ...And when you reveal them, it doesn't say that it counts as their move for this phase.... you're right we could do it.... and with a Gaunt on the Vortex we should do it!!
     
    Canas likes this.
  4. Aginor
    Skink Priest

    Aginor Well-Known Member

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    The really problematic guys on the Vortex are all that have area spells, which is the Gaunt Summoner, Kroak, potentially a Branchwych as well.
     
  5. Canas
    Stegadon

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    Eh, which spell for the gaunt summoner is AoE? Isn't his special spell targetted to something in sight?
     
  6. Aginor
    Skink Priest

    Aginor Well-Known Member

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    Huh. You are right I was wrong. I mixed that up with something else I think. It is still a damn strong spell. And at that huge range it becomes very dangerous at least against hordes.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  7. Canas
    Stegadon

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    Ah, I missed the "for each model within 18 of the summoner"-bit. What an odd targetting mechanic, pick anything visible, but only those models within 18" can actually be hit. Anyways, yeah then that one benefits from it quite a bit as well. If nothing else it makes the spell far more effective as he can actually reach units in full without needing to be in charging distance half the time. Kroak still benefits most though :p
     
  8. Aginor
    Skink Priest

    Aginor Well-Known Member

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    Yeah area spells like Kroak's and to a lesser degree the one from the Branchwych become a lot better.

    Or The Changeling stealing the spell from Kroak... oh boy...
     
  9. Canas
    Stegadon

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    still, a tad too specific to call for a nerf imho. If anything its the fault of the mortal sounds again (idem with that stupid rule of one breaking kroaks special spell.. The spell kant he issue, mortal wounds is..)
     
  10. Aginor
    Skink Priest

    Aginor Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Kroaknado is a borderline broken game mechanic, but the underlying problem is that there is no protection against mortal wounds.
    Imagine all wizards could do a spell called "arcane bubble" that would enable all armies to protect units within 18" of the wizard against mortal wounds on a 4+ or so. That would mitigate the problem a lot I think.
     
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  11. Arawn
    Saurus

    Arawn Member

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    I like this idea a lot!!
     
  12. Canas
    Stegadon

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    that still has severe issues with turn 1 teleporting kroaks.

    mortal wounds in general just need to work differently. As ice said before give us physical and magical wounds both with their own save on each unit. itd solve the various issues mortal wounds are causing now.. Mortal wounds can still exist in a very limited manner (for example the saurus knights lances is fine) but they need to be special.
     
    Aginor likes this.
  13. Aginor
    Skink Priest

    Aginor Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely agree, but I am still searching for little band-aids to at least mitigate some of the problems without introducing too many changes to the rules. It would make testing those rules with other people easier.
     
  14. Arawn
    Saurus

    Arawn Member

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    What about thinking the other way, Chama Skink could help us holding an objective...
    - TP Slann or Kroak on an objective
    - Summon Vortex
    - In the mouvement phase the skinks appear next to our slann on the top of the Vortex or on the base, so We control the objective with almost untouchable skinks in combat phase, and a 3+ save (rerollable with a slann command ability) in the shooting phase.
    And they can teleport somewhere else to grab another objective if needed later.

    That's a lot of points dedicated to one objective... but I think I will give it a try.
     
  15. Stevie754
    Skink

    Stevie754 New Member

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    I was talking about this the other day. I had said to teleport an eternity warden on top of the balewind with Kroak to eat some of the wounds from shooting units units and mages until we get a chance to kill them.

    Like the chameleon skinks you can't move onto a balewind but our teleport isn't a move. :)
     
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  16. Aginor
    Skink Priest

    Aginor Well-Known Member

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    Yeah it might be allowed but....
    It sure sounds like a TON of cheese there. :D
     
  17. Canas
    Stegadon

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    little bandaids have a tendency to have unintended consequences, e.g. the rule of one seems a decent rule to stop arcane bolt spam. Until you realize this basicly breaks a wizard based army due to a lack of spells & ruins several unique abilities. Now to fix it they've started introducing unique spells per faction, but we're still in the weird situation were only 1 guy can cast say mystic shield at a time. And the special abilities are nowhere near getting "fixed" (seriously, who thought it'd be a good idea to have the rule of one affect abilities where the whole gimmick is that you can use it multiple times...)

    A spell like that already exists btw, it's elemental shield from an aelf archmage though the save is a 6+ and it works for both mortal and normal wounds.

    Also, giving it to all wizards just leads to even more issues with wizards knowing waaaaaaaaaaaay more than they can possibly cast. Which frankly is already an issue I have with most wizards apart from Slann. Only being able to cast once while knowing 3 spells is a tad awkward. And since the spells for a lot of wizards are the only thing they can do it gets even weirder. A lot of them are barely more than ornaments outside the hero phase. Seriously, why do they so rarely have a decent statline, give them a ranged attack like the kairic acolytes have at minimum. At least then they're guaranteed to do some mild ranged support aside from that 1 spell per turn.

    Also, it'l inevitably lead to non-wizard armies taking the cheapest allied wizard to wrap themselfs in the bubble and be even more ridiculously difficult to kill.

    mwha, they're not particularly abusive tactics. The chameleons have no rend protection, and they drop like flies to mortal wounds. And since they're around the vortex an enemy with a 2" attack should be able to reach em I think. Plus, they lack the range and firepower to truly win trades. As for the eterinity warden, mwha, bit many points and the warden is just standing there. That's a 100 points or so that's mostly just doing nothing. Fairly big sacrifice to make, even if it can help Kroak/the slann to survive just long enough to outlast the opponents.
     
  18. Tokek
    Saurus

    Tokek Active Member

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    It does not have the "this counts as your movement" wording so there is really no basis for anyone to claim that it counts as moving. I daresay that would not stop some people trying to claim it but there really is no basis.
     
  19. Canas
    Stegadon

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    On the downside, this does mean thunderstrikes work as well to get near him. Drop a stardrake on top of him with it :p
     
  20. Aginor
    Skink Priest

    Aginor Well-Known Member

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    Don't they have the 9" from enemy rule?
     

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