It seems to me that Gor-rok is the key here! And not the saurus per say! Still I must say that my curiosity has been lit!
Its true that the saurus was not very effective, but the held against that sheer force of destruction and just long enough for me to win combat and thereby the game... Gor-Rok was, as I said, AMAZING... he did what i wanted him to do (except failing a strength test vs. festus and thereby losing a wound) i had only lost 5 or so templeguards and none of my cav... so the trolls would be easy to take down.. the write up was also to show that i tried some of the game plan explained from @protector and i will be fielding this list again (although somewhat different)
And here comes the question. Would a block of skinks with Gor-rok on the side have done equally well? I am starting to believe that it is in fact him who does the trick.
I agree with you that the saurus didnt do much in this fight... i like to make all-comers lists, which is why i made my oldblood with those builds, and with that in mind i think against other lists they will fare a lot better.. remember he threw nurgle warriors, skullcrushers, DP and more against the combined unit and they held for 4 combat rounds, while the TG did the damage ... they did what i wanted them to, granted more dmg would have been nice, but with 4+ armor and 5+ regen from festus is very tough
That is an awfully familiar list lol, thanks for giving it a try and posting with results, and congrats on beating an extremely tough WoC list. It wasn't the worst I have seen but it certainly is a very hard list that you really handled quite well. I look forward to you tweaking it a bit and providing more results as you get them. As for the rules question it depends on alignment, I believe that if the DP was in the way of the pursuit move then they would have charged into him during their pursuit instead of moving through/around him to catch the warriors. From what you have said though I think even with that the game would have been yours as the DP would not have lasted a round with the TG and 2 cowboys. Skinks would have probably died to the man before that last critical round or provided too much CR during that last round so that he would not have won by as much as he needed if at all. Even if saurus and skinks do 0 wounds each they still die very differently against nurgle halberds. I do agree though that Gor-Rok was key to that whole fight, one of the many reasons he is included in so many of my lists and why I rate him above other Scar Vets, I think I spoke up for him in a different thread earlier. And as has been pointed out this list is an all comers list, and with the right build and game play saurus are way more effective against other armies than skinks, sometimes not but I have just found that it is most often the case. I really like how he used different units to support weaknesses in each other, line up the saurus to take it on the face, and then throw the TG in and try your hardest to buff them with wyssans because S6 cracks open 1+ AS units really fast, especially with frenzy 2 attack PF models . And then use skinks to chase around things like trolls where high S doesn't mean crap, keeping your opponent on his heels does wonders for your game plan, if he doesn't have a plan B and you do can make a world of difference. Gor-Rok Rocks!
I liked him so much I have two of his model, I'm going to have one converted to ride an oop metal carnosaur and run that as my oldblood cowboy
Sorry I forgot to reply to these questions. 1) Yes I meant 14" 2) Saurus against any MC is a bad match-up, in this case I highly recommend either buffing saurus with wyssans (as in that is a must happen) or support them with a cowboy. Another thing I prioritize with MC is the bastilo-blast, 50% of the time it can really put the hurt on even 1+ AS units, or as was just put up my TG block can chew them up point for point and just destroy them with wyssans, which this list is built around getting off. 3) So the +1 across the board relies on a lot of knights that are not sitting on demigryphs, those units are no problem to saurus, they easily take the 1st turn and then point for point grind them down, with gor-rok it actually takes them out fairly quickly. Skinks I find are almost useless against this build, but saurus actually fair really well, and with a large CoR unit and swiftstride TG I can get the charge almost half the time, and like with MC TG will chew up +1 knights all day long. 4) Unless I am facing DE cold ones or Skullcrushers with his unit then I place him near the middle, I very often give up an easy charge with this unit to reposition him for an advantage the turn before. But overall most units I am facing with saurus are not going to be able to take him down easily, only a few units have enough high S attacks in a small footprint to be able to threaten him, remember T6 and +2 AS is actually pretty massive. Even against skullcrushers 12 S5 attacks he will only take a single wound, along with his shield he usually is responsible for taking down a skullcrusher 1st turn himself for me.
But thats the thing for me, they dont really point for point. You get 2 skinks for 1 saurus Saurus against S5 gets wounded on 3+ and have 6+ 6++ save where a skink would take it on 2+ to wound and single 6++. But you got twice as many. The reason to take saurus for me would be they have bigger damage output, AND the OBVIOUS benefit of Wyssans on them is WAY better than on skinks. And as you say, they are better in most matchups if you dont just have them to take a hit. Thanks for the second round of answers, makes sense!
_ _ _ K it, im gon field me a horde of saurus with Gor-rok, and then they WILL get wyssans on them and they WILL perform. I will make a list inspired by yours, but with a couple of "this is how I do" changes. Will tag you for your input later!
@Phatmotha-phucka oddly enough was it the fact that i didnt have that extra 40-50 skinks that did save me... in the last round and in the previous, why? because the fight was so close that it was even to combat rounds in a row. I am certain that skinks/skrox would have lost that fight in the long run... @protector Its true that i took your list, but i felt that i needed some expert advice, and i am certain that with more fights my newer list will evolve, as well as the way i play the game... I really like the aggressiveness of this kind of list!
Im confused. If the saurus didnt do much, it must have been stubborn that made them hold. If it was stubborn that did the trick, skink would have hold just as good due to tarpitting rather than soaking damage. Am I to understand that your saurus was wiped out, and didnt give up additional Combat Res for the enemy the following rounds? Because that is hardly a good arguement to go with saurus over skinks
true im saying that the higher toughness and better AS made me lose less models, if i lost more then there was a probability that my TG would have fled plus they would have lost frenzy... i actually think that because my saurus got wiped i got me the game, since they simply couldnt give up that CR... if i had those 40 extra skinks then they would have been wounded alot and therefore i might have lost everything.. its contradicting that losing a unit hands me the victory but that is how it was... as explained in the little BR it was a VERY big and confusing fight 5 of his units (3 units and 3 chars) vs. my 2 units and 4 saurus hero/lords... im sorry if im not completely clear in my writing, i am (also) from Denmark
Though to be fair, it was the first elf army that I have ever respected, normally I tend to be a little... discriminatory against the ponces. But this army was made totally from Witch Elves and elves with great weapons. Very fighty and aggressive, I respect that. Better than the usual speedy wusses. Besides, I've not lost a game in far too long, too long indeed.
Well they say that we learn more from our defeats than we do from our victories. Any strategies brewing on how you will beat them next time?