Looked quickly over a few of the army books, and it does not seem like "Furion" has been completely partial when making these changes. Some come out better than others... It is kind of sad, when a good attempt like this is ruined due to the author is biased, instead of stepping back and looking at it trying to actually archive a good and fair balance. Any idea what army he play with? I am sitting wondering if it could possible be HE...
You know.. This is to be expected. It's extremely hard to no be just a tiny bit biased. On top of that you cannot have 100% knowledge of all armies, how they work and what their ups and downs are. You can have a good idea, but ultimately you're going to fall short on some areas. This is why I believe it cannot be done properly if it's just one guy. He also appear to be rushing through the books in no time with nothing play-tested. I could be wrong and there could be more people helping him, but so far it's called "Furion's" so I'm guessing he's mostly alone. With that said he's willing to talk with Swedish Comp and hopefully they're helping each other out. ^^
I confronted him with this exact presumption.. (I am Quetzalcoatl in there if you'd like to follow or add anything to talk with him). Afterwards I investigated, and turns out he does play HE (grand surprise). I am not going in for an entire edition based on Elf-hammer...
Yes, you are 100% correct at this. We are all doomed to be a little biased in the end. Some just let it shine through more than others With this note, I am very pleased at the community we have. We seem to be the only forum out there, which has had a civil and constructive discussion regarding what changes that need to be done to their army (in our case Lizardmen). Especially since we have also been able to agree on changes that does not benefit the army directly, but in the end make them more fair and balanced in the grand scale.
looks like he did respond. He is beating around the bush instead of counter-arguing. He lost my goodwill.
I thought he made a couple of good points in his version of the ogre book, but his point values for lizards and ogres are really off. I would keep some of the rule and stat changes for use in 9th age, but ignore a lot of the pricing suggestions. And keep his version of high elves far, far away.
That's unfortunate. He also seem very much to be very sure about his own changes. At one time he's thankful for comments and then later he doesn't actually give a fvck about it. You gave some good examples and he didn't appear flinch once. Maybe he will later. As you alredy suggested he doesn't have the luxury that GW had. If he fvck up once people will not come back - just look at OpenHammer and how we responded. I find it very odd that a single person figured it would be the best solution to go about this by himself. As I already stated previously we are all biased and he isn't an exception.
We (lustria online) could make our own priceadjusted army books, We could play them at least until the more official ones come out. I for one would be willing to make a Google document where everyone could get a say in what gets changed and all. I'm honestly not expecting this to happen, but I just wanted to throw it out there to see if anyone might be interested in that.
Well it'll probably be a little lizard biased. We would have a hard time getting any elves players on board, since we wouldn't actually just make the HE the best army by far It seems though, that when you're an elf, you don't care for balance. Let them foolish mortal worry about this! @Phatmotha-phucka, I read through the comment section, and I feel like you have some valid points there. A shame this project will only stay, has a fun little exercise on how to almost do it right. If I were to make an army book I could too come up with adhoc arguments, for making completely ridiculous point reductions, but it really doesn't help the discussion.
Take a look on the Openhammer / 9th Age thread, we have been discussing what changes that need to be done to Lizardmen. While we obviously are biased, we are trying to make the changes with the point of view of balancing Lizardmen so other players will agree with out choices, not to make them OP.
Sadly, we seem to be the only people not trying to either burn an army that we don't like into the ground or make our own army OP. I did make a comment in Furion's thread about point costs for extra spells across armies. I definitely feel that his changes are heavily biased toward high elves, but besides that, and other than some questionable cost increases/decreases, I do like a lot of what he's done. His changes to Yhetees and Thundertusks for the Ogres are quite good, and should be the standard for how to make an underused unit more desirable.
I'm kind of getting the feeling that this will all burst in flames more and more. Reading about how the HE are atm completely OP in this version.. We got openhammer, 9th from swedish, ETC players all going to create their version now? Where their armies get nice an strong? This will blow up pretty darn fast if everyone starts to do he's own thing. I never even played a game with swedish comp but reading the rules and how you guys feel about it playing swedish comp, I just get the feeling these guys truly want whats best for the game. If we are ever going to get somewhat a 9th ed. It will have to be created by a large gaming comunity or it will all fall apart.
The way I see it, each of these groups is coming up with at least one good idea. Ideally, everyone would work on their projects, and after some playtesting, there will be one big amalgamation that is generally accepted as the new way to play WHFB. 9th Age has some really cool ideas (such as spears having killing blow against cav, monstrous can, and chariots), and some really stupid ideas (5+ parry seems to be making a mess out of balancing anything). Furion has some really cool ideas (such as the Yhetee and Thundertusk interaction) and some really stupid ideas (High Elf book). I haven't paid much attention to Openhammer, since they seem to just be making their own game, rather than balancing the one that currently exists, but I'm sure they have some good ideas and bad ideas of their own. Hopefully, once everyone has had a chance to see what people have done, what they like and dislike, and once the obviously stupid stuff (WS2 A2 Ogres guy should be banned for that suggestion) has been cut out, then hopefully we will have a good game to play.
I'm liking Furion less and less. He appear to be basing all his balance/changes on statistics, but statistics isn't everything. A unit can be good and taken, but not necessarily fun to play with or against. Statistically it fits the bill, but if he isn't willing to listen to what people actually have to say he might not be making a good and fun game, just a game that is more balanced.