Blog Wannabe lizard wizard… Toltecatl's lil' lizzards and stuff!

[Bracnos]

I just happened across it when I was getting a new paint brush, got it for 8 euro but I think you can get it of Amazon

 

[Warden]

Other than that, i may need some advice from you guys… I've decided, as you may know, to convert my 'start collecting' set warriors into TG's by adding some details. I can't make them bulkier, that would take years and years and the result would prob suck.
So i've decided to start using greenstuff moulds for the boney helmets, which are a very precise and delicate part. I'm hoping it'll turn out fine…
Also, i found another detail I want to reproduce: a skull is always useful in any Warhammer composition. So on the pic you can see the two first-attempt moulds in the making, i really hope i'll pull it off.
Have you guys ever experimented with GS moulds? I used this tutorial, the guy seems to have it figured out pretty well (and on top of that he's french too… nah just kiddin, no need for jingoism here ).. If someone has got experience to share I'm all ears. @Warden I see you've tried it quite extensively on Bretonnians?

I have never tried GS molds, or GS in general (didn't want to pay for it/scared of getting it to work). My brother has tried it a few times though I will have to ask him about the process sometime.

I use some "relatively" cheap rubber molds that I have gotten from Hobby Lobby, but you can find them in most craft stores. "Amazing Mold Rubber," usually I find it for $20 in the store, but I got it on amazon for under $14 once. You can see the stuff I cast into a mold next to it inside the plastic bin.

Spoiler: Rubber Molds

The molds wind up pink in the end. Using some "Amazing Resin" stuff from the same company I have been able to cast a bunch of things for my Bretonnians. I have been able to cast extra peasant men-at-arms, archers, and even knights and their horses to make use of all the extra head bits that come in the kits. Plus I have been working on my jungle trebuchets, which I am trying to finish painting this weekend.

Spoiler: Resin casting examples

Peasants:


Knights Horses:


Trebuchets!



More pictures over in my other painting blog at the Round Table of Bretonnia

Only big issue I have with this process is that it causes a fair amount of bubbles sometimes in the cast pieces (which I either ignore or fill with self-hardening clay) and I can't seem to cast anything that is excessively pointy like spears, lances, or other weapons. But most bodies, and larger pieces work. My next mold I plan to cast my slann so I can make multiple copies... 5 SLANN IN ONE ARMY!!!

@Bracnos I really like the idea of a reusable mold! It sounds really easy to use. It looks like your molded pieces are made of green stuff?

 

[mousekiller]

That is awesome, I am going to have to take a shot at mould making one of these days.

 

[Toltecatl]

@Bracnos many, many, many thanks. Those details look pretty kickass. I was just thinking it might cost quite a lot of money if i kept doing everything with GS. Plus it seems to be available in France judging by the packaging ^^
@Jorgik i found that blue stuff on the website of a company called rougier et plé (https://www.scrapmalin.com/loisirs_...brication-des-moules-oyumaru-56-965-9920.html) for app. 10 euros. Sounds like a fair deal given the precision of the moulding/casting but it may be cheaper elsewhere, i'll be looking around hehe

Apart from that yeah, the arches are for my sternguard vets. I know it's a lot for these models but they are a pretty special unit and anyway I really have a knack for spending hours and hours one just one model… lol

 

[Toltecatl]

@Warden yep I saw your other blog, that s why i was thinking you might have done GS too… your bretonnians look damn fine to me. I guess results depend on the amount of details on the model though, and the Temple Guard sure has no lack thereof. A slann has no scales… So would you try it with scaley lizzies or do you fear the scales might be lost?
I really love the Mayan-style sculptures on the trebuchets btw. excellent idea.

I know it sounds stupid but I really want to get better at moulding/casting cause it's not just about converting warriors to TG's… With the starter box I got a CARNOSAUR kit which is yet unassembled, and of course this guy features the TROGLODON option… So if all this works, guess who's gonna try and make both models instead of just the carno
(and of course, I've already decided not to allow the "Scar-vet on foot" option to slip away so I'll be trying either to sculpt the body (which is pretty much the only part you lack when you assemble the kit as a carno), or to cast it, depending on how my other attempts go. 3D casting surely is a whole different level but eh, no pain, no gain…
Same should go for Terradons/Rippers whenever I get a box of these guys. Hehhehe…

Anyway, I'm getting way too excited right now, so back to the (still very modest) facts.
Basically i took off 2 pieces off their moulds yesterday night, gave the moulds an extra day to cure and i just filled them with GS. Those were a skull and a bone helmet. Since the moulds look ok i thought i'd try it with other parts from the box, so i've got about a dozen moulds curing right now, which, if they turn out ok, should be enough to add all the necessary details to my Warriors. We'll see how that goes.
I'm prob going to get the oyumaru stuff @Bracnos recommended tomorrow as it's no big expense. I'll ask about whatever resins they have at the shop and see if it's cheaper than GS. Whatever happens I'll keep you guys posted so I can compare my moulding experience with that of Warden and Bracnos.

Oh and just wanted to say: I'm amazed at how reactive and helpful you guys are. thanks again (so much) for your help, ye jolly auld lizard wizards

 

[Bracnos]

@Warden yes I did use gs in the molds my first two did not turn out that well but now that I have been doing this more I am making the gs bend to my will

@Toltecatl yes I highly recommend this stuff easy to use and you can keep making new molds. If you look at my blog you can the the base I made for my light up solar engine. The tiles were all made using that blue stuff (shameless self plug http://www.lustria-online.com/threa...t-with-feathered-cloak-completed.16969/page-7)

 

[Toltecatl]

@WardenIf you look at my blog you can the the base I made for my light up solar engine. The tiles were all made using that blue stuff (shameless self plug)

Yeah I think I saw that but I'll have another look btw where are you from? I saw the French on the packaging so it made me curious. That's if you don't mind me asking of course

 

[Warden]

@Warden yep I saw your other blog, that s why i was thinking you might have done GS too… your bretonnians look damn fine to me. I guess results depend on the amount of details on the model though, and the Temple Guard sure has no lack thereof. A slann has no scales… So would you try it with scaley lizzies or do you fear the scales might be lost?
I really love the Mayan-style sculptures on the trebuchets btw. excellent idea.

I know it sounds stupid but I really want to get better at moulding/casting cause it's not just about converting warriors to TG's… With the starter box I got a CARNOSAUR kit which is yet unassembled, and of course this guy features the TROGLODON option… So if all this works, guess who's gonna try and make both models instead of just the carno
(and of course, I've already decided not to allow the "Scar-vet on foot" option to slip away so I'll be trying either to sculpt the body (which is pretty much the only part you lack when you assemble the kit as a carno), or to cast it, depending on how my other attempts go. 3D casting surely is a whole different level but eh, no pain, no gain…
Same should go for Terradons/Rippers whenever I get a box of these guys. Hehhehe…

I don't think scales would loose there detail, I would worry more about the spikes and arms/other appendages because they are so small. But you can normally make new ones with the extra resin "flare" left over after you are done.

I thought about casting the carnosaur pieces but decided against it at the last minute, but I think it would work if you tried a two-part mold. I haven't tried any of them successfully yet, but my brother has to cast a high elf dragon model with pretty good success. The only things that didn't translate through the casting process were the dragon's teeth. I think a carnosaur should work to, it would just be difficult getting it to fit in the mold, it would have to be a big one unless you chopped it up.

Also I tried doing terradons/rippers once, and it ended in disaster, so I didn't bother to try again but let me know if you attempts are more successful!

 

[Toltecatl]

I don't think scales would loose there detail, I would worry more about the spikes and arms/other appendages because they are so small. But you can normally make new ones with the extra resin "flare" left over after you are done.

I thought about casting the carnosaur pieces but decided against it at the last minute, but I think it would work if you tried a two-part mold. I haven't tried any of them successfully yet, but my brother has to cast a high elf dragon model with pretty good success. The only things that didn't translate through the casting process were the dragon's teeth. I think a carnosaur should work to, it would just be difficult getting it to fit in the mold, it would have to be a big one unless you chopped it up.

Also I tried doing terradons/rippers once, and it ended in disaster, so I didn't bother to try again but let me know if you attempts are more successful!

Ok thanks for the details.
Well in the case of the Troglodon teeth would be no problem at all hehe, theyre all inside. I guess i'd just cast each separate part of the model and then assemble as if they were actual GW pieces. Some of them are pretty big, we'll see if the moulds can be big enough.
I'll try it as soon as i get my hands on the moulding stuff and let you know how all this works out

I'm pretty excited about this actually. Really hope it'll turn out fine…

 

[Toltecatl]

So first casting results look ok to me, though not perfect. Theyre TG details, one skull from the drum and one bone helmet.
All the detail isnt perfect obviously (I'll need to hollow out the bottom part of the skull to make some teeth appear, sculpt some horns on the helmet…) but eh, it's gonna help me build more units for just (loads of) time and some green stuff instead of 45 euros so what can I do… unless you guys think I shouldnt be so easily satisfied and should try making new moulds?

(Also, I've just removed the original bits from another 11 moulds including other details such as more skulls, shield pieces, the unit leader's ornate helmet, knee pads, another helmet and animal teeth which TG use for jaw protection/adornment. I'll be trying these too shortly, whenever i get the time. If it feels alright, at long last I'll be posting pics of my TG-based host's very first unit soon, and it'll be full of green stuff hehe

As usual lemme know what you think

 

[Toltecatl]

haha found this on the internet and thought I'd share.

 

[Bracnos]

Yeah I think I saw that but I'll have another look btw where are you from? I saw the French on the packaging so it made me curious. That's if you don't mind me asking of course

I'm Mexican but living in Belgium now..at least a year or two more till I move

 

[mousekiller]

What process are you using to make these, if I can ask? They look great.

 

[Crowsfoot]

I have never tried GS molds, or GS in general (didn't want to pay for it/scared of getting it to work). My brother has tried it a few times though I will have to ask him about the process sometime.

I use some "relatively" cheap rubber molds that I have gotten from Hobby Lobby, but you can find them in most craft stores. "Amazing Mold Rubber," usually I find it for $20 in the store, but I got it on amazon for under $14 once. You can see the stuff I cast into a mold next to it inside the plastic bin.

Spoiler: Rubber Molds

View attachment 20090

View attachment 20091

The molds wind up pink in the end. Using some "Amazing Resin" stuff from the same company I have been able to cast a bunch of things for my Bretonnians. I have been able to cast extra peasant men-at-arms, archers, and even knights and their horses to make use of all the extra head bits that come in the kits. Plus I have been working on my jungle trebuchets, which I am trying to finish painting this weekend.

Spoiler: Resin casting examples

Peasants:
View attachment 20094

Knights Horses:
View attachment 20095

Trebuchets!
View attachment 20093
View attachment 20096

More pictures over in my other painting blog at the Round Table of Bretonnia

Only big issue I have with this process is that it causes a fair amount of bubbles sometimes in the cast pieces (which I either ignore or fill with self-hardening clay) and I can't seem to cast anything that is excessively pointy like spears, lances, or other weapons. But most bodies, and larger pieces work. My next mold I plan to cast my slann so I can make multiple copies... 5 SLANN IN ONE ARMY!!!

@Bracnos I really like the idea of a reusable mold! It sounds really easy to use. It looks like your molded pieces are made of green stuff?

Years back, I'm talking 1980ie's here, I bought a hard rubber 2 part Archer mold and you melted your old lead models in a pan and poured it into the mold, they were crap and pretty dangerous when your 15 and pouring molten metal, I remember burning my hands quite a few times and chucking the mold in the bin.

The good old days

 

[Toltecatl]

Years back, I'm talking 1980ie's here, I bought a hard rubber 2 part Archer mold and you melted your old lead models in a pan and poured it into the mold, they were crap and pretty dangerous when your 15 and pouring molten metal, I remember burning my hands quite a few times and chucking the mold in the bin.

The good old days

Haha thats what we all like about being young though. Recklessness… Anyway, you're the scar vet of this thread for sure

@mousekiller I basically found this on the internet:

and i used his method here. I'll be trying a few more of my moulds today, see if they work well. Prob trying replacing GS with milliput though, it comes a bit cheaper at the store I go to. I'll let you guys know how it turns out
Otherwise, I also found this video:

the guy basically uses plaster and silicone, I looked it up and you can get that for 15 euros whereas the specific stuff I got advised to buy (but obviously didn't) at an art store was silicone moulding paste and polyester resin, for a total of…60 euros. Well, this guy seems to go alright with his plaster, and you can also use poly resin with this silicon, the only downside being that your moulds needs a week to dry.
That is no concern with me since it allows for such substantial savings… what do you think?

 

[Crowsfoot]

@Toltecatl

I used to use milliput and it's pretty easy to work with and regarding the moulds if your saving so much go for it.

 

[Jorgik]

The level of detail on those walls was excellent!

 

[Toltecatl]

@Toltecatl

I used to use milliput and it's pretty easy to work with and regarding the moulds if your saving so much go for it.

Thanks!! Yep I just tried milliput let's see how it turns out… it's all curing right now, cant wait!

Meanwhile if anyone wants to know, from the experience of working with it today it seems to me that GS has the upper hand when it comes to moulding while milliput may be better for casting, because GS has a tendency to be stickier and retain its shape more (so it kinda stays around the original part better when you cast the mould), while milliput really feels more fluid so you can spread it around etc without a problem and all the parts of any layer you use will feel more independent. I mean, in my experience, when you work with GS, modifying one part of a patch will often create a pull on the rest of the parts, often strong enough to cause slight to bothersome deformation (depending on how long it's been since you mixed it). Milliput feels like it could be more forgiving in that regard. It also has a stronger reaction to water, which really gives it a mud-like texture, allowing you, it seems, to smooth it out very efficiently
Thats all i've been able to grasp for now… @Crowsfoot i take it youre familiar with both. what are your thoughts, do you agree?
Anyway I'll post an update tomorrow, when I release the parts etc ^^

@Jorgik yep. He got me convinced with all those skulls, his technique is very intersting especially for larger parts. I'm wondering if it'll work with 360 moulding, but it does seem to since he casts some sort of pillar around the end of the video youtube is such a magical place…
I'll prob be trying this shortly so we should be, theres a land speeder I want to duplicate, and the carno/troglodon parts, plus maybe some temple guards / warriors, and maybe dark elf coldbloods which i borrowed from a friend ^^
Theres a snag though, plaster is fragile (i dunno about the weight…). The guy in the video only moulds thick pieces, I dont know how well that would work with model parts… Maybe polyester resin remains the better option for models then, but it's quite expansive.

 

[Toltecatl]

Hey guys!
So heres an update on my milliput/GS experiments. hope it may be useful to some of you NB: by milliput I mean the white, 'superfine' one. i dunno about the other varieties (terracotta, yellow etc).

So overall, I think milli isnt best used for casting pieces in general, but it has some qualities which make it awesome for a certain kind of texture: it gives sharper results, it's more solid, and the texture is less 'round' or 'pasty' than GS…
@Crowsfoot if your experience is different please say so, i'm a beginner here.

Main drawbacks:
- Milliput, when it cures, has a tendency to "absorb" liquids, including oil. Which means it sticks to the mould (when I took off the parts, the moulds were way dryer than with green stuff)
- it becomes rigid and fragile (GS remains more flexible), which means if you pull one part of the piece too hard it may snap off (unless maybe you use a thick layer, which is less cost efficient).
- so little, simple bits will probably work because when you remove em the pull will be more uniform, while bigger bits have to be removed little by little by progressively levering each side with the knife. On the bigger bit (pic below) the parts i pulled, being pretty thin, broke apart from the main piece.
==> So to me, GS seems better suited if you need to cast bigger, more complex bits: even thin layers will withstand a harder pull.

I may be wrong though, i'll be making more experiments…
- Maybe more oil would do?
- Maybe i just used too thin a layer or pulled too hard…
- Maybe if i had removed it before it cured entirely it would have been ok.
- I havent had the time to try using the bits, maybe milliput will be easier to file, being more solid, so itd provide a better result on the model…
- Also, with more flexible moulds (oyumaru…), i guess you could push the mould from underneath and not pull the milli. I'll probably give it a try

What the features of milliput, as compared with GS, seem to allow:
- it's more solid, so maybe edges etc can come out sharper (they often seem a little rounded with GS), and the texture feels more 'stone-like', 'bone-like'…
- it has a tendency to crumble while GS has a tendency to get 'ripped' or 'torn' apart. It feels more like plaster… The 'crumbling' aspect allows for awesome ruin effects. If you mould or sculpt a piece and start taking bits off you'll have a nice "damaged" effect: here's an example, look at that piece on the right. i failed to take it off the mould in one piece but now it looks pretty good i think…


So yeah, don't hesitate to tell me what you think and also, please let me know if you're interested or not in more postings on moulding/casting, I'm getting very excited and interested but you guys may find it boring

Anyway, heres a pic of the pieces i cast! GS stuff is still not perfect but it's a good start. The milli parts i did pull off are good too More to come over the next few days. of course comments, thoughts, criticisms, ideas suggestions (…) are more than welcome

 

[Crowsfoot]

The milliput I used is the yellow one which dries hard like greenstuff, have not used it for years but I bought some when I started back as greenstuff was not common then.

Castings look great and I can't wait to finish all my side projects to get onto my Temple and start making bits.