• The forum software have been upgraded to the latest version.

    If you notice anything that looks off, or does not work, please let us know.

    For more information, click here.

AoS [SBWiP] Asoteka - Followers of the Old Ones

Mortals that Follow the Great Game?

  • Yea

  • Nay

Results are only viewable after voting.
I disagree in the shields case. I fought Ironjawz who had quite a lot of rend spread out. Most of it was all 1 with only th boss haing a 2. Came in handy there ;)

as for being a tarpit, yes. Theyre ambushers. They're meant to block a charge/spook a unit and divide the enemy. The points for them will likely be 120-140 for 10, but points will need a good looking at once the units themselves are sorted out.
 
Meh, might just be the units I've seen so far that make the rend protection look weak in comparison to the other shields. Plus as I said, things that only work in very specific situations tend to rub me the wrong way. Especially in cases like this were we have a general purpose unit that has a very specific ability, but that ability is taken into account when calculating the unit's value. In a considerable amount of situations I'd be fine fielding our seraphon shieldless if it meant a pointreduction and thus more seraphon to field. At least in the case of the skinks you have he choice of kiting them out without shield but giving them 2 weapons instead.
 
The Idol of The Vengeful Sotek is extremely OP. I think that you should change the damage for the mouth to D6, and lower the movement to less than ten. No models (That I have seen the warscrolls for.) do more than three wounds consistently for every hit. You should also lower the rend, because only one Seraphon warbeast has -3 rend, and that's the Steg with Flamethrowers. You don't need to take all my advice, but it would prevent the Idol from being a one model army.
 
@PhoenixTheCat you know, now that you mention it.... No huge beast does do more than 3, aside from when D6 is used. Hrm. Nit a trend I noticed.

But, regarding rend. Rend represents armor bypassing capability. A Chaos Gargants Headbutt is -3 Rend and this is fairly analagous. Changing the damage to D6 would balance it better.
The speed of the beast does need to be adjusted, its somethin ive gotten a bit o feedback on.

No one has thoughts on its defenses? Had a comment elsewhere about a 3+/4+ being Op.
 
Canas said:
Couple of remarks:

  • Why do the skirmishers only wear melee weapons? Skirmish troops usually employ some form of easy to carry ranged weaponry (javalins, slings, short-bows). Factually incorrect in it's bases sense. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skirmisher for example of your evidence though. It is a broad term.
  • Why do the Bow & Arrows they use have such abysmall range? I'd suggest changing them to javalins, or increasing their range. Addressed this already.
  • Chotec raiders have a sworn protector rule, I don't see raiders protect much :p Agreed, I've changed the ability and will be changing the Warscrolls here soon.
  • The behemoth is really freaking fast for a hulking stone monstrousity. It is a snake, but the speed has been adjusted.
I like the warriors, they feel very much like something the seraphon are currently missing. At 2 wounds/model and 10 in a unit they make a nice tar-pit. Though the save is probably a bit much. Also, their ranged weaponry might allow to output a bit too much damage with a D3 that can be doubled. Addressed

I like the ideas of having their special troops largely be golemns. Gives a nice aesthetic.

Some other suggestions:
  • Additional rule:
    • The great plan coming together: Whenever te Asoteka and Seraphon join forces their combined understanding of the great plan allows them to fight with greater purpose. Asoteka forces near Seraphon allies have 10 bravery, Seraphon forces near Asoteka allies gain +1 to hit. I would rather the Seraphon not benefit in that sort of way near Asoteka. The support of their units to fill gaps and provide support would be enough. As for the Bravery Modifier, perhaps specific units of Seraphon will provide a bonus through a special Army-Wide rule.
  • Have them wield banners similar to the ones the seraphon wield. This will help tie the armies together in terms of aesthetics & feel. If they're drawn/modeled similarly, the aesthetic would be intact. These are living models compared to Daemons who generally want the enemy to break. Looking at other armies and banner uses, there is plenty of room for variation.
That's it for now I think. Most of it looks nice enough for a starting point :p
Click to expand...





InfamousBeany said:
Some interesting concepts, these are just a few thoughts after my glance through the list:

Asoteka Skirmishers:
  • Cool concept, a bit like melee skinks. I like the option of cheap battleline.
  • The Fireblood Totem is really really cool, and I think more could be made of it- due to their battlefield role of harassing and interrupting, you could perhaps give them barbed nets or something with which to tangle enemy units. Something like "When this unit successfully charges, they may cast out their barbed nets at a single enemy unit within 1". Until the end of the next combat phase, both this unit and the targetted unit have -1 to hit". I feel like this exemplifies their role as a support unit, and can make them an amazing tool for controlling the battlefield in your favour. I do like this idea. I may create a unit similar to the Grot Fanatics but as a debuff unit rather than a wrecking ball.
Huanchi Warriors:
  • I feel like they're interesting, but confused. They could probably be separated into two separate units- a bulky, tarpit unit and an ambushing short range missile unit. Addressed this in previous post, they're supposed to be a tarpity ambush unit meant to make your oppenent wary.
  • Talking of ambushes, I love the ambush rule, very creative. As i mentioned above, I just feel like it might be a bit overpowered when considering the staggering statline they have.
  • I echo @Canas ' point that the damage on the bows is a tad high. I appreciate that the range is low to compensate, but I feel like that the damage coupled with the fact that they are super bulky (and come in units of 10!) is too much. Adjusted the damage back to one, it was meant to be.
  • A+ name
Chotec Raiders:
  • Everything screams "aggressive saurus guard" which I like, but Sworn Guardians rule seems super out of place. I adjusted the rule and you may like what you see there.
  • I am unsure if the banner is too OP. Maybe restrict it to only applying the turn they charge? A blanket -1 to hit with no requirements or fail state on an infantry unit seems a bit much. It's only within 4 inches of the unit, or it will be when I finish editing it. I noticed it technically said 5 feet. Darn '.
  • To be perfectly honest, this looks nearly tabeltop ready. Cool name, cool concept- just tweak them to push their tabletop role in a clear direction and I would be queing up to get me several boxes.
Ripbeak Riders:
  • This is the only unit I just don't really...get. They seem on face value to be worse terradon riders?
  • You could really run wild with these in terms of battlefield identity. You could give them the shadowstrike starhost ability of dropping from the skies, or you could give them the nets ability I suggested for the skirmishers above (now that would be interesting...), or you could give them stronger short range missile attacks (maybe swap the bow profile from the Huanchi Warriors to these guys?), there are a bunch of possibilities.
Idol of the Vengeful Sotek
  • Super similar to the Ork Rogue Idol, so I imagine it would have similar points cost.
  • It is fairly quick- which when coupled with its obscenely high damage profiles, might make it a bit too much of a "stat stick"
  • Venom seems pretty powerful, its the Bastiladon weapon without the rend. Bearing in mind the Basti is 300 points and doesn't have the statline that this does...could be costly.
  • I like the buff field a lot, and the concept of a debuff when it dies. I think then current debuff you have is open for abuse (it's basically a free retreat with zero consequences), so maybe something like -3 to Bravery for that turn?
General Thoughts:

I really like this army concept. If we get an unofficial Battletome together for this, I would absolutely kitbash some of these units and use them in friendly games.

Golems have so much empty design space for you to use- they could work like troop carriers, or totems, or artillery... I'm excited to see the possibilities.

I also just want to congratulate you on the naming, it's spot on.

I look forward to more updates!
Click to expand...

Text in Blue is a reply to a specific point, though some of it has been addressed in shorter posts.
 
3+ save with 16 wounds & another 4+ ward save is indeed kinda really OP.

4/6th of all wounds are saved, half of those are warded, so it requires 48 normal wounds, or 32 mortal wounds, to kill.

He also puts out 2D6 ranged attacks for 2 damage that are 3 on a 5 or higher with 3+/3+ which should put out eh, somewhere around 10 wounds.
Monstrous bulk: 4 attacks D6 damage 3+/3+, that's about 6 wounds.
Thunderous twin tailed: two attacks D3 3+/4+ that's about 1.3 wounds.
Maw: 1 attack 2+ 2+ 5 damage, that's 3.5 wounds (when at full health)

For a total of about 20 wounds per turn, not taking into account his rend ignoring most defenses.

Also, once killed it explodes on top of what's around it.

It'l basicly outduel anything it faces and can only really be taken down by concentrated effort of multiple units working together, preferabl from ranged.

He migh be a wee bit OP and can least easily go toe to toe with the likes of Archeon and other silly characters :P

Also, the golemn is a snake with razor teeth? That's, eh a tad odd, but fair enough, had imagined something else.


As for the skirmishers:

Literall the first line in the ancient time bit:

"In ancient and medieval warfare, skirmishers typically carried bows, javelins, slings",

And past ancient warfare you get the rise of the gun with virtually everyone using ranged weapons.

How does that make my claim that skirmishers usually employed some form of easy to carry ranged weapon factually untrue?

As for my additional rule; I'd like there to be some sort of benefit to mixing the two, beyond just the benefit of having more potential types of units, though it's not strictly necesary.
 
I think the health, move, and attacks need to be nerfed, and the ward save removed. Also, pictures would be useful.
 
Maybe a general rule for leaders, priest etc could be that a slann in your army can use them as arcane vassal?
Just came up in my mind while checking this thread
Can't say anything about the golem cause I have nothing to compare with at hand ( final exams coming closer so hobby's at a minimum at the moment...) but from what I read and hear other armies have similar hard to take out beats... so why not? ;)
 
PhoenixTheCat said:
I think the health, move, and attacks need to be nerfed, and the ward save removed. Also, pictures would be useful.
Click to expand...
A good deal of it is being adjusted, but it's durability will remain largely the same. Adjusting the Ward save to a 5+ is likely better. As a note, a Nurgle Lord can have 3 saves at 4+, 5+, and 6+ all for one wound. I think a behemoth that is fairly durable, as well as moderately killy, is alright.
Pictures are somethign I do not have, but I will write out some general descriptions of the units in THE LAND section.

tom ndege said:
Maybe a general rule for leaders, priest etc could be that a slann in your army can use them as arcane vassal?
Just came up in my mind while checking this thread
Can't say anything about the golem cause I have nothing to compare with at hand ( final exams coming closer so hobby's at a minimum at the moment...) but from what I read and hear other armies have similar hard to take out beats... so why not? ;)
Click to expand...
I like that idea.
It's similar to an amalgam of Gargant and Rogue Idol of Gork, so there are some similarities.


Canas said:
As for the skirmishers:

Literall the first line in the ancient time bit:

"In ancient and medieval warfare, skirmishers typically carried bows, javelins, slings",

And past ancient warfare you get the rise of the gun with virtually everyone using ranged weapons.

How does that make my claim that skirmishers usually employed some form of easy to carry ranged weapon factually untrue?

As for my additional rule; I'd like there to be some sort of benefit to mixing the two, beyond just the benefit of having more potential types of units, though it's not strictly necesary.
Click to expand...

Apologies, I only used the first few paragraphs. I cherry picked and did not completely read the article. As it stand though, I believe the term skirmisher does not automatically require a ranged weapon.
For the additional rule, I'm still creating units, and seeing what all may benefit from what. Of course, a flat +1 to hit could have a few things hitting on 2+ from the Seraphon line, which I'm not sure would do well. Perhaps a unit I have been brewing might be what you're looking for.
 
For the Artists in the room, I added some unit descriptions to THE LAND section for you to Browse. Idol will come later as I believe I can find something for that.
 
Carnikang said:
Apologies, I only used the first few paragraphs. I cherry picked and did not completely read the article. As it stand though, I believe the term skirmisher does not automatically require a ranged weapon.
For the additional rule, I'm still creating units, and seeing what all may benefit from what. Of course, a flat +1 to hit could have a few things hitting on 2+ from the Seraphon line, which I'm not sure would do well. Perhaps a unit I have been brewing might be what you're looking for.
Click to expand...

No worries. Anyways, skirmishers are used essentially to annoy enemies & do some damage to the enemy before the actual battle starts. Generally this is easiest done by bringing some ranged weapons. Run up to the enemy shoot a couple of times then run away before the enemy can retaliate. It doesn't require ranged weapons, but it makes it a hell of a lot easier. At the very least I'd give them something specificly designed to annoy the enemy and slow down their approach should hey decide to give chase. Right now your skirmishers are essentially just cannonfodder and your warriors are closer to skirmishers than they are.

Basicly skirmishers generally have the following:

  • Lightly equiped, frequently only wearing a large, but light, shield for protection
  • Fast
  • Ranged weaponry
  • use of hit & run tactics.
The guide, reed pipe & bows from your warriors are briljant for a skirmishing formattion. You can ignore terrain penalties while running away, all the while shooting at those chasing you. Also, the warriors are faster than the skirmishers. The wardrum of the skirmishers of course fits quite well too. The totem a bit less as skirmishers generally don't like getting into the melee as they're poorely equiped. Generally skirmishers only go into melee when having the oppertunity to flank or as emergency reserves and usually their ammo needs to have run out before that. But the totem would not be entirely strange I suppose, especially in combination with somethng like javelins it could allow them to retreat, shoot & charge back in which would be fairly decent hit and run :P

yea, my initial suggestion for the rule wasn't entirely balanced. But I do think you'l need to get some things going to encourage mixing. Otherwise people will just bring the most usefull ones from either force. If the temple guard are better then the raiders they'l only bring temple guard, if the huanchi warriors are better than the saurus they'l only bring huanchi. If however combining them brings benefits they'l be more eager to do so. I think for this you both need a general "if a Asoteka and Seraphon are near eachother they gain a bonus" kinda rule and a specific "if Asoteka X is near seraphon those seraphon gain Y" kinda rule.
 
Canas said:
No worries. Anyways, skirmishers are used essentially to annoy enemies & do some damage to the enemy before the actual battle starts. Generally this is easiest done by bringing some ranged weapons. Run up to the enemy shoot a couple of times then run away before the enemy can retaliate. It doesn't require ranged weapons, but it makes it a hell of a lot easier. At the very least I'd give them something specificly designed to annoy the enemy and slow down their approach should hey decide to give chase. Right now your skirmishers are essentially just cannonfodder and your warriors are closer to skirmishers than they are.

Basicly skirmishers generally have the following:

  • Lightly equiped, frequently only wearing a large, but light, shield for protection
  • Fast
  • Ranged weaponry
  • use of hit & run tactics.
The guide, reed pipe & bows from your warriors are briljant for a skirmishing formattion. You can ignore terrain penalties while running away, all the while shooting at those chasing you. Also, the warriors are faster than the skirmishers. The wardrum of the skirmishers of course fits quite well too. The totem a bit less as skirmishers generally don't like getting into the melee as they're poorely equiped. Generally skirmishers only go into melee when having the oppertunity to flank or as emergency reserves and usually their ammo needs to have run out before that. But the totem would not be entirely strange I suppose, especially in combination with somethng like javelins it could allow them to retreat, shoot & charge back in which would be fairly decent hit and run :P

yea, my initial suggestion for the rule wasn't entirely balanced. But I do think you'l need to get some things going to encourage mixing. Otherwise people will just bring the most usefull ones from either force. If the temple guard are better then the raiders they'l only bring temple guard, if the huanchi warriors are better than the saurus they'l only bring huanchi. If however combining them brings benefits they'l be more eager to do so. I think for this you both need a general "if a Asoteka and Seraphon are near eachother they gain a bonus" kinda rule and a specific "if Asoteka X is near seraphon those seraphon gain Y" kinda rule.
Click to expand...

Alternatively, just have abilities that affect the Celestial keyword. Having explicit synergies seems a bit ham fisted.

Also a lot of units really find their niche in formations, so I feel that rather than trying to force a rule that makes synergy between the two factions, maybe put a couple of formations that cover it.
 
InfamousBeany said:
Alternatively, just have abilities that affect the Celestial keyword. Having explicit synergies seems a bit ham fisted.

Also a lot of units really find their niche in formations, so I feel that rather than trying to force a rule that makes synergy between the two factions, maybe put a couple of formations that cover it.
Click to expand...

Celestial covers stormforged too though, including them in the bonus would be a bit odd.

Formations could fullfill the same niche I'd want this rule to fullfill, but the formations so far are limited by generally requiring rather specific compositions. Unless it's a fairly "open" formation like the bloodclaw or heavenswatch that can take a reasonaly large amount of choices I suspect formations might be too limited for what I'd intend.
 
Formations will come, but as of right now, units need to be completed and balanced before anything similar to a Battalion could be brought.
 
Well, heres a thought. Im stuck between making the next unit a small group (3) of golems that are tough, but slow that give out one of three buffs (depending on which ones are still alive) or making a behemoth that essentially does that as well, but in a different way. Wounds would add up to be about th same, but what do you all feel would fit better?
Ideas an input appreciated.
 
Behemoth! Always room for more dinosaurs!
 
I would cast my vote for Golems- so far that would tie a bunch of your AOE buffs to golems which I think is a cool design choice.

Also I just want to see more cool golems tbh.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top