I understood your point and, friendly speaking, haven't thought of it. Sad smile on my face. Thanks god we almost all the time either don't have the save or have the bonus at least equal to the rend)
I still think it is a bad mechanic and the rerolling should happen after modifiers, which is easier to get into new players' heads and easier to do when drunk. (Yes, I drink while playing. ) And that's even how most people I know do it anyway.
I meant "beneficial" in terms of gameplay, not necesarly in given the player an advantage. For starters it's confusing. But also it'd feel very inconsistent as the initial roll doesn't follow the same rules for it's value and succes as the final re-roll. The only gameplay use I can think of is re-rolls of specific values (e.g. SCE shields re-rolling 1's). E.g. a liberators unit with a +1 to save-rolls from say cover would never have his re-roll actually trigger if that bonus is counted.
Right, in that sense it's a different thing. Yeah, prom a gaming pov, the reroll before modifiers is more difficult to handle and a bad idea.
So if I understand it correctly, does rerolls/effects happen before modifiers? So raw dice result? Does this also count for other things besides saverolls? For example 6 to hit gets buffed with +1? Gues sometimes it even says 6+ to hit, so that actually awnsers the question. It weird to have differrent mechanics for hit/wounds rolls and save rolls. What would be the downside of making it the same rules? That modifiers work before rerolls/effects?
it'd count for all rolls. So for re-rolls you should (theoreticly) look at the unmodified result. But it's a rather inconvenient way of doing things... including modifiers is more consistent and easier to do.. The only purpose of it that I can think of is specific value re-rolls (e.g. liberators shields allowing re-rolls of 1's). Thanks to modifiers those could be impossible to actually trigger.
They could be triggered after modifier. A +1 to saves with a -2 rend would mean that you reroll the 2s. If a player rerolls natural 1s before modifiers, but rerolls failed save after modifiers... that's an approach that creates wrong results. I still agree that it's often the way the game is played, because it's the easiest way.
yea, but you'd need both positive and negative modifiers to keep the mechanic. A +1 to saves invalidates "re-roll 1's". To be honest for the purpose of "re-roll rolls of X" counting natural rolls does seem somewhat logical in that aspect. For re-roll failed/succesfull rolls it'd be weird to count the natural ones htough.