AoS Lord Kroak Power Level

Hey my favorite lore character is Lord Kroak because he is freakin epic. I’ve been looking on sites for how powerful he is but every site has a different answer. Also I want to know if he is more powerful then Nagash lore wise. Lol some sites say that he isn’t some say that he is way more powerful. Some sites say Mazdamundi is stronger while others say kroak is etc. lol someone please tell me his power rating lorewise and also if possible include his power before and after his death and also whether spirit Kroak can be killed because so far I haven’t heard anything like that.

 

While Kroak was alive, he was significantly more powerful than Mazdamundi. Lord Kroak is a first generation Slann while Mazdamundi is a Slann is "only" a second generation Slann. Additionally, Kroak learned magic directly from the Old Ones.

Living Kroak was the most powerful of all the Slann.

 

So is dead Kroak more powerful than Nagash? Or just living Kroak. Also how close are Mazdamundi and dead Kroak

 

How does living and dead Lord Kroak compared to godlike Nagash

 

To be honest I wouldn't be too sure of that. The lore around malign portents was rather scarce as far as it involved the seraphon. The issue is that Nagash had literally every single possible advantage he could have as well as the full might of the death allegiances in that battle. And even then the forces send by the other factions were "limited". Massive armies were send, and yes there were some slann (2? 3? 100? who knows, why would GW give actual numbers...) but this was not the full might of every faction. On top of that, none of the other factions send their big names. Nagash was standing there with literally everything he had & in return who showed up? Some random throw away characters. It's the biggest threat facing the realms in ages & noone like Kroak, kairos or the celestant prime bothered to show up. Hell I don't even think any greater deamons showed up. Which to be honest does rather downplay the threat Nagash actually posed.. And given that the we have things like Tzeentch involved I very much doubt that you can get away with "Nagash was just super sneaky and they all understimated him"..

All in all I would still claim that Kroak is still more powerfull than Nagash based on the old lore & the fact that Kroak has literally survived every single thing thrown his way, including the literal end of the universe, by just willing himself to do so. Not even the chaos gods or Sigmar can claim that feat. On that alone I would say that Kroak is probably the single most powerfull entity in existence. Only issue is that we have so little lore... and obviously the actual rules can't represent that either as "realistic" rules for Kroak would allow him to table 2.500 point armies with ease in a single spell, so basing it of that doesn't work either...

As for Nagash's actual powers. His main strengths seem to be his massive armies & the fact that both him and his followers are nigh indestructable, endless and eternal. Not to mention that destroying him at this point would involve conquering the literal realm of the death, and outside of himself noone really wants or can stay in the realm of the death without expanding considerably amounts of resources. All in all that means that although striking him down is relativly straightforward, but it just means he'l try again in a couple 100 years...

To be honest, if it came to a battle between the two I'd bet on Kroak in nearly any scenario, supported by armies or not. Nagash had all his preperation, in his own realm, surrounded by sand that literally kills his enemies for him, with the full might of a grand allegiance, and he still couldn't manage his ritual. Hell he couldn't even protect his walls from being breached. Seriously, how ridiculously massive were the order, destruction & chaos armies that the entirety of death can't grind them to a standstill?

 

I think I would have to give it to Kroak, Nagash is the God of Death and has control of all the dead in the realms... Kroak is dead but thought "nah that's not for me" so chose to ignore death and carry on doing what he wants. No he is basically he is thumbing a boney nose at Nagash and blowing a raspberry. I realise Kroak "died" before Nagash came into being but I'd have thought being THE god of death and consuming all the other death gods he should really be able to deal with one mummified toad but Kroak is still about doing his Kroak things.

 

I wouldn't go that far.



In general, we have to admit that much of this is pure speculation on our part. It's tough to accurately compare the relative strength levels of the various iterations of Kroak and Nagash. They are powerful in different ways, but I think it is safe to say that each of them has had a larger impact than Mazdamundi.

Perhaps in terms of raw magical strength because obviously Slann > Human. However, Nagash may have left a larger lasting impression. Whether directly or indirectly, he is ultimately responsible for the creation of both the Tomb Kings and Vampire counts. So while Kroak had the edge in raw magical might, Nagash successfully did more with less. Of course, the counter to that argument is that living Kroak existed in a time when the flood-like incursion of the daemons was at its peak. His feats in repelling the daemon legions are legendary.

The issue with conversations like this is that each army book propped up their race's characters. Reading one army book will lead you to one conclusion, while reading another will result in an opposite conclusion.

 

Well who would be more powerfull? There don't seem to be any other beings that have pulled of the same feats that he did. Sigmar is the only other being that actually survived the world that was, all the other permanents and even the chaos gods had to reawaken/reform, and even Sigmar didn't so much survive as much as that he simpyl wasn't blown up. Kroak (and the seraphon/lizardmen in general) seems to be the only one to actually survive without burnmarks from an exploding world. He's also the only being I know of that literally couldn't be bothered to die. And his magical feats and sheer kill counts are without equal. Not to mention he's now had a couple millenia of extra practise to become yet more powerfull. Unless there's fluff somwhere claiming he grew weaker than he was during the world that was there's very few beings that should be able to even compete with him.

Arguably Kroak is the reason the old world (and the new world) still existed in the first place for Nagash to even show up. He did save the world a million times over, not to mention that in sheer (Daemon) kill count there's probably noone that can keep up.

 

Admittedly I don't follow AoS lore. My viewpoint is purely based on Warhammer Fantasy Battles. As such, I can't really comment on bits of lore taken from AoS and will have to take your word on it.

I believe that it was the Slann collectively that taught the Elves magic and also assisted in the creation of the great vortex. I don't remember reading specifically that it was Kroak alone that was involved in those events.

In terms of old world lore (I can't speak on AoS lore) Nagash is literally responsible (directly in the case of TK and indirectly in the case of VC) for two army books, and consequently their lore:


Kroak on the other hand is responsible for none.

The Old Ones for one. They were clearly more powerful than Kroak, even though they disappeared (as far as I know their fate is not known).

The Chaos gods are infinitely more influential. You can field Kroak in both AoS and WFB, but you can't field a Chaos god because they would be completely OP and game breaking. In addition, Kroak on the battlefield (WFB) is less effective than Kairos, and Kairos is a mere servant to his master: Tzeentch. Also consider that the influence of Chaos (which is a composite of the 4 chaos gods) is far wider reaching than Kroak in terms of army books, followers, influence on geographical areas and general story progression.

In terms of AoS... you'd have to go with Sigmar. I mean the game is named after him! Plus his wretched SCE make up the heart of the entire game. Seraphon are more of a footnote (no model releases thus far and only an outdated battletome to speak of). Didn't Sigmar literally create the mortal realms? Kroak has done nothing so substantial.

There are more, but you get my point.

 

I think this thread would fit the fluff forum more.

Oh wel

 

That was Kroak and the rest of the Slann (plus the entirety of the Lizardmen forces). An impressive feat no doubt, but one where Kroak had lots of aid. Nagash's spell that ravaged all of Nehekhara was a solo effort.

Also consider that Nagash was the father of necromancy. He brought it into existence and unlocked its mastery. Not bad for a mere human.

 

That is a fair enough point. I do agree that things did not go as he intended. But the magical ability to create such a feat, even if it did not go as planned, was monumental none the less.

Also consider where Nagash came from. He was a mortal human. He did not have the innate magical skills of the Slann. He was not trained by the Old Ones. Yet he was able to reach literal godhood.