AoS Solving The Long Range Problem

[Nun-pak]

Neat, but there's two major issues on the ones you list on your warscroll that'l prevent em from actually outgunning the opposition.

1) They're lacking a special weapon option that brings significant damage (the abilities of their slings aren't special enough for a group of 5 to only equip those)
2) They're lacking raw firepower at only 1 attack/model and with 5 models in a unit a unit will only really hit once per turn which isn't really going to achieve much.

Unless they're very cheap so you can spam them in sufficient quantities to make up for those two drawbacks I don't see them solving our ranged issues. As it stands they don't even really outperform chameleons outside of a handfull of relativly small advantages (e.g. slightly better range, but given how chameleons work getting in range usually isn't the issue..)

I do like the oils though. If you'd make it into a permanent ability instead of a once per battle thing they'd make for some very effective supporting troops. Their main use would be their debuff & that'd make them very cost-efficient. Either they'l debuff your opponent and occasionally score a wound, or your opponent wastes precious time murdering them which is time your real troops can use to get into position. Which fits very well with their role as skirmishers, a distraction and general nuisance which left unchecked will be a giant pain but is unlikely to win any fight on its own.

Also minor sidenote, why don't they have any shields?

Oof, so I was thinking of the Slingers to be a relatively cheap unit which you can semi spam at the enemy (should be cheaper than chameleons), I like your idea of using the oils for a permanent ability so maybe to balance the unit I could take some other ability out. And finally, they do not have shields because in Aztec history Slingers did not have shields (however this can be changed). Thank you for being so honest and constructive!

 

[Canas]

Oof, so I was thinking of the Slingers to be a relatively cheap unit which you can semi spam at the enemy (should be cheaper than chameleons), I like your idea of using the oils for a permanent ability so maybe to balance the unit I could take some other ability out. And finally, they do not have shields because in Aztec history Slingers did not have shields (however this can be changed). Thank you for being so honest and constructive!

Right, I'm mostly used to the european slingers which did tend to have shields which was also the only piece of defensive equipment they had. Hence I missed em. I'd add in the shield just for consistency with the other skinks as well.

If you want to make em spammable I'd make em into a larger group than 5. 5-man squads seem to usually be the "elite" option in AoS.

Then I'd also say you should pick what role you'd want them to play exactly.

Currently I'd see two variations:
Supportive with permanent oil debuff. In this case I'd drop the 2 range related abilities in exchange for making the oil permanent. For unit sizes I'd make em 10 min, 20 max. Cost: 100-200. This way they're weak enough that they'l usually get outgunned by dedicated ranged troops, but are in a sufficiently large group that they don't end up accidently wiped out by their target sneezing at em. Their main contribution is now their debuff and just the general skink nature of being in the way and a general nuisance, but they're not going to kill much.

Damage dealers: Unit size 20 min, 40 max, cost 175 points per 20. Drop the oils in favor of a special weapon, or in favor of just generally better offensive stats. Possibly increase the effects of the two range mechancis you've put in. Right now the difference in terms of damage output with regular skinks isn't too impressive even with the range mechanics present.

 

[LizardWizard]

Neat, but there's two major issues on the ones you list on your warscroll that'l prevent em from actually outgunning the opposition.

1) They're lacking a special weapon option that brings significant damage (the abilities of their slings aren't special enough for a group of 5 to only equip those)
2) They're lacking raw firepower at only 1 attack/model and with 5 models in a unit a unit will only really hit once per turn which isn't really going to achieve much.

Unless they're very cheap so you can spam them in sufficient quantities to make up for those two drawbacks I don't see them solving our ranged issues. As it stands they don't even really outperform chameleons outside of a handfull of relativly small advantages (e.g. slightly better range, but given how chameleons work getting in range usually isn't the issue..)

I do like the oils though. If you'd make it into a permanent ability instead of a once per battle thing they'd make for some very effective supporting troops. Their main use would be their debuff & that'd make them very cost-efficient. Either they'l debuff your opponent and occasionally score a wound, or your opponent wastes precious time murdering them which is time your real troops can use to get into position. Which fits very well with their role as skirmishers, a distraction and general nuisance which left unchecked will be a giant pain but is unlikely to win any fight on its own.

Also minor sidenote, why don't they have any shields?

Generally it is better to err on the side of underpowered when creating warscrolls. The point value is needed to know how balanced they would be though. My assumption has been 40 pts for three since they act as Skink Handlers. While still over costed, they would be better than the standard Skink Handlers.

 

[Canas]

Generally it is better to err on the side of underpowered when creating warscrolls.

Possibly, but the titel does say they have to solve our long range problem, so I assumed they're supposed to be putting out some decent firepower. Hence maybe erring a bit much

Plus, right now they're trying to mix two roles. I think that first we'd have to decide which one they should actually be doing. Should they be a supportive debuffer with their oils, or should they be a ranged damage dealer. As right now they're not going to be particularly good at either due to a lack of focus.

 

[LizardWizard]

Possibly, but the titel does say they have to solve our long range problem, so I assumed they're supposed to be putting out some decent firepower. Hence maybe erring a bit much

Plus, right now they're trying to mix two roles. I think that first we'd have to decide which one they should actually be doing. Should they be a supportive debuffer with their oils, or should they be a ranged damage dealer. As right now they're not going to be particularly good at either due to a lack of focus.

I could be mistaken, but the substance of the post seems to be solving the problem that Skink Handlers lack any real benefit beyond their effect on Razordons and Salamanders. The title of: "Solving The Long Rang Problem" seems to be directed at Skink Handers ability to contribute to damage. This problem was, however, apparently brought to the authors attention through a recent post on effective use of allies for Seraphon. So I can see how the post's subject is somewhat ambiguous.

 

[Canas]

I could be mistaken, but the substance of the post seems to be solving the problem that Skink Handlers lack any real benefit beyond their effect on Razordons and Salamanders. The title of: "Solving The Long Rang Problem" seems to be directed at Skink Handers ability to contribute to damage. This problem was, however, apparently brought to the authors attention through a recent post on effective use of allies for Seraphon. So I can see how the post's subject is somewhat ambiguous.

ah right as such. The thread has gotten a bit confusing then...

If they're going to replace handlers then I'd say stick with the oil and make that permanent and don't attempt to make em do any actual damage. That way they're going to improve vastly better support beyond just "stand next to razordons/salamanders" but it also won't require them to be made terribly expensive cuz they're suddenly increadibly powerfull. They're still going to be pure support and utterly useless on their own.

 

[Nun-pak]

ah right as such. The thread has gotten a bit confusing then...

If they're going to replace handlers then I'd say stick with the oil and make that permanent and don't attempt to make em do any actual damage. That way they're going to improve vastly better support beyond just "stand next to razordons/salamanders" but it also won't require them to be made terribly expensive cuz they're suddenly increadibly powerfull. They're still going to be pure support and utterly useless on their own.

Well at the start I actually aimed to “solving the range problem” and maybe if there was problem in production the Slingers “could replace the Handlers,” however it is my mistake I was just trying to make the unit more of a choice for games workshop. But staying on topic,
If I want the Slingers to NOT be a substitute for Handlers I think it would be better for the Slingers to be a supporting role (by using the Oils ability) because the oils ability did happen in history and (maybe) in Warhammer AOS it isn’t really a large concept. Unit size would be 10 or above.

If I WANT Slingers to be a substitute for the Handlers I would still keep the Oils rule permanent and probably take out some non important abilities.
*Currently working on a warscroll*
Any questions?

 

[Nun-pak]

Well at the start I actually aimed to “solving the range problem” and maybe if there was problem in production the Slingers “could replace the Handlers,” however it is my mistake I was just trying to make the unit more of a choice for games workshop. But staying on topic,
If I want the Slingers to NOT be a substitute for Handlers I think it would be better for the Slingers to be a supporting role (by using the Oils ability) because the oils ability did happen in history and (maybe) in Warhammer AOS it isn’t really a large concept. Unit size would be 10 or above.

If I WANT Slingers to be a substitute for the Handlers I would still keep the Oils rule permanent and probably take out some non important abilities.
*Currently working on a warscroll*
Any questions?

Finished Warscroll

 

[pendrake]

All of this seems a bit like a reinvention of the wheel.

I mean: we used to have Skinks with Bows.


Could somebody maybe write a scroll for Skink Sniper-Rangers with (I dunno) Starbows?

(The arrows turn into a streak of deadly starlight once they fly beyond 12 inches...much hurty goodness ensues. Make it a near equivalent to that Sigmarish ballista thing.)

 

[Nun-pak]

All of this seems a bit like a reinvention of the wheel.

I mean: we used to have Skinks with Bows.


Could somebody maybe write a scroll for Skink Sniper-Rangers with (I dunno) Starbows?

(The arrows turn into a streak of deadly starlight once they fly beyond 12 inches...much hurty goodness ensues. Make it a near equivalent to that Sigmarish ballista thing.)

You seem to have a good idea, maybe you could write the warscroll? Search up warscroll designer and there you go.

 

[Canas]

Finished Warscroll
View attachment 50178

With respect to the oils you should define what exactly it means to be hit twice. Does it mean wounded twice? Two succesfull to hit rolls? Two succesfull attacks that needed to be saved?

 

[Nun-pak]

With respect to the oils you should define what exactly it means to be hit twice. Does it mean wounded twice? Two succesfull to hit rolls? Two succesfull attacks that needed to be saved?

Oh sorry, it is meant to be successfully wounded twice, otherwise let’s just say if you have a unit of 10 and only 1 wounds why would it make sense that it would affect the whole unit.

 

[Canas]

Oh sorry, it is meant to be successfully wounded twice, otherwise let’s just say if you have a unit of 10 and only 1 wounds why would it make sense that it would affect the whole unit.

It might make sense that multiple succesfull wounds are needed for it to trigger, but it might not be particularly balanced. At 4+/4+/-1/1 with 10 models against a save of 5+ you'l only score about half a wound on average. And that's against a fairly squishy target, against sturdier elite forces you'l basicly never trigger the blind in that case. That is something worth taking into account.

 

[LizardWizard]

I would go with: "Once per game during your shooting phase you may declare that this unit will use its Blessed Oils. If you do so then any unit chosen as the target of its Starfire Sling suffers a -1 to hit for the remainder of the battle."

This would allow you to create a longer durration affect, but limit you to only ever targeting one unit. You could also make this occur on a 4+ or 3+, similar to the Razordon's ability.

 

[pendrake]

Search up warscroll designer and there you go.

I think I did search for that once. The one I found was non-functional for mouse-free devices. Do you have a link?

Also “ware” is the wrong word in the slinger Warscroll. You wanted “wear”. They sound identical; mean different things.

 

[Nun-pak]

It might make sense that multiple succesfull wounds are needed for it to trigger, but it might not be particularly balanced. At 4+/4+/-1/1 with 10 models against a save of 5+ you'l only score about half a wound on average. And that's against a fairly squishy target, against sturdier elite forces you'l basicly never trigger the blind in that case. That is something worth taking into account.

Ye, so what do you think we should do with the Blessed Oils? I like Lizard Wizards idea, but there could be some changes.

 

[Nun-pak]

I think I did search for that once. The one I found was non-functional for mouse-free devices. Do you have a link?

Also “ware” is the wrong word in the slinger Warscroll. You wanted “wear”. They sound identical; mean different things.

Ye, I got a link that I use on mobile. https://runebrush.pa-sy.com/warscroll/
Oh and thanks for helping with the vocabulary.

 

[Canas]

Ye, so what do you think we should do with the Blessed Oils? I like Lizard Wizards idea, but there could be some changes.

I'd say make it permanent on whatever they attack, succesfull or not the projectiles will presumably land vaguely near the target and break so it'l be annoying regardless of it being a proper hit or not.

In exchange, remove the rend of the projectile. Also lower their stats so they don't just outperform skinks, or make em significantly more expensive than normal skinks.

Also add in wary fighter.

This way they're a pure supporting troop that will do little damage, but can be a giant nuisance by constantly dropping -1 to hit on important targets that is very good at running away from any threat. It makes em perfect for goading an enemy into going after them.

 

[pendrake]

so what do you think we should do with the Blessed Oils? I like Lizard Wizards idea, but there could be some changes.

It** needs to work every turn. No ammo tracking/once per game.

**whatever Blessed Oil turns out to be. (The concept reminds me of orange and green potions from Diablo II, the computer game.)

 

[claymore36]

I like the idea of Kroxigors slinging big stones. The stones would be rounded and covered in lizardmen glyphs to turn them into magical explosives.