(POTENTIAL CONTROVERSY) 007 Film Continued Discussion

Whilst I agree, the currently accepted common usage for the word is unfortunately intertwined with female chauvinism and misandry by way of two very extreme vocal minorities that disproportionately dominate the public discourse.

 

That might be what they are advertising, but it isn't what they are selling!


Or if you prefer, as my friend likes to say, "if you believe that, I have some magic beans to sell you".

 

I wish I could like this twice. Yes there are extremes on both sides (I would be inclined to say more on the MRGs myself, but given the current reputation of feminism it would be delusional to say there aren’t some on that side as well), but if you want to label all members of such movements as extremists you achieve f*** all except a poor excuse to completely ignore the valid and important points being made by the majority. That being said however, I think trying to equate the struggles of men (particularly of the straight and white variety) to those of women is utterly absurd.

Think about it like this: you are a fire service and receive two calls. One is for a small isolated warehouse that has caught fire. The warehouse is currently empty, and everyone’s made it out, but if left it could cause a potential problem and it’s certainly something that should be sorted. In the other call, an entire huge children’s hospital has gone up in smoke. Does it stop the warehouse from being on fire? No. Does it mean that the warehouse being on fire isn’t a problem or shouldn’t be considered as such? No. But does it mean that you should go to the warehouse fire instead of the children’s hospital? Of course not! There is clearly a far larger and more immediate problem that requires your attention first! Perhaps once the hospital fire has been brought under control then someone can be dispatched to deal with the warehouse, but until then, acting like the two are of equal importance is ridiculous and priority must clearly be given to the greater issue.

There are areas in which men are discriminated against - that’s a fact. However, issues such as not generally getting as much custody in divorces and being more frequently the butt of jokes in adverts seems a tiny but trivial compared to having assault and rape against them normalised and constantly being denied opportunities due to something that goes to the core of their being. You can give all these arguments about “oh, laws are in place to stop this sort of thing” and such, but it only takes a cursory look to see that despite this, it’s still happening and is still a major issue that we need to sort out. To be short, I’m not saying sexism against men or racism against white people or discrimination against straight people doesn’t exist. I’m saying that if you think these things are worse than their female, non-white, LGBTQ+ equivalents, then you’re an idiot.

 

That's the "advertisement" I was eluding to. It sounds nice and looks good on the pamphlet but it doesn't accurately reflect reality. You are of course free to believe otherwise. There is an exodus away from feminism. Even the percentage of women who self-identify as feminists is abysmally low (there is UK census data to back this up if you are interested). This trend is contradictory with what you purport feminism to be. They are selling you wolf tickets.

I can't take any movement or group seriously when they promote ideas like the gender pay gap, which immediately falls apart under any level of reasoned scrutiny. Or the fact that we live in a "rape culture". Rape is despised. Rapists are viewed as the scum of the earth by men and women (even in prison). It's nonsense.

As for your serious academic feminist (that's low hanging fruit so I'll refrain from making jokes on that), a year or two back a couple of professors demonstrated what kind of nonsense academic feminist/gender journal articles were spewing forth. They fabricated a bunch of fake papers using feminist/gender buzzwords and submitted them for publication. A few of them were actually accepted (try that with an accredited Physics journal!). To give you a perspective of what kind of nonsense they incorporated in order to make their point, one of the papers was a copy of a chapter of Hitler's Mein Kampf with keywords replaced with feminist/gender buzzwords and theories. Their most famous one was about dog parks and rape culture; you can see one of the Professors talk about it here (there are many more longer videos that you can easily find for yourself)...


On a more anecdotal level, a decade back I had a very close personal female friend of mine take a women's study course in university (one of those forced "electives"). I trust this woman and over the years I've never had any reason to suspect that anything she has told me was untrue. After she finished the course, I asked her about it. She said it was disgusting man hating. She was shocked at the things they were able to get away with. She lost all respect for that field of study or ideology. Keep in mind this "information" was coming from a professor (PhD) in an accredited university, not just some nut job on the streets. Not only that, but this professor and the course in general would have been overseen by countless others.


But once again, (despite my best efforts) here I am arguing over the same tired points that we have quarreled over in the past. Nothing will ever change. No matter how many times we run through this process, I'll still see the same three forum members lined up on the other side of the "battlefield". I'm sure you feel the same way. It's a pointless exercise as all parties have continually demonstrated that they are firmly entrenched and immovable. Furthermore, aside from a few members who drift in and out, nobody else on the forum really cares. Most people sitting on the fence (or simply uninterested) in the topic have zero desire to read through walls of text, whether yours or mine. Rather than waste time carefully writing a response, I could have just as easily replied with something like this

Spoiler

The sad reality is that with today's short attention span, carefully crafted memes, jokes and ridicule are significantly more effective at bringing the masses to your side than pages of thought out argumentation. It might not be "right" but it is quick, easy and effective. I'm not advocating for the refusal of reasoned debate and discussion, but I do believe there are probably better environments for it. And if your goal is to actually get at the heart of issue (as opposed to winning over bystanders to your side) we've clearly proven that to be pretty fruitless endeavor over the past year. At the end of the day, everyone seems to leave with pretty much the exact same mindset as they originally entered with.

Like I've said before, I'll let history decide who the victor is. At which point, I'll resurrect this thread with a a meme or a gif and someone on the other side will claim that I am incorrectly claiming that the victory proves my point [a desperate but logical move I suppose]. That said, I've called my shot, eight ball corner pocket... I'm happy to let history unfold.

But there is a net effect. And it is very easy to speak on that net effect.




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One last thing, conversations like this are a powder keg. A game of Russian roulette. It's not a question of if things will go wrong but when. That's not to say I will avoid all such discussions in the future, but at least I hope they are about something that we have yet to discuss ad nauseam. @Aginor and I were constantly butting heads over Star Wars, until it was agreed that we simply do not discuss the subject with one another. Since then, we have brought peace, freedom, justice and security to our new emp... . Point is, if this conversation is a powder keg, I'm likely the match!

I tried to refrain from entering the fray (until multiple taggings), but now I leave you to it my friends. Believe what you will. I respect the three of you, but I vehemently disagree with your thoughts and ideologies as they pertain to this particular topic. I have full confidence in @Scalenex continuing the good fight (he feels inclined to), and he would do so in a more diplomatic way. Any further call on the NIGHTBRINGER will likely result in memed responses! Be forewarned.

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I would just like to share a short but poignant piece on rape culture by a woman I follow and admire. There is more to rape culture than just saying it’s okay to rape people (these are her words by the way, not mine so I can take no credit for them):

Virtually every narrative designed to combat rape culture is misrepresented and adulterated by apologists (see e.g., “believe women). Distortions are intended to discredit the existence of rape culture entirely - most importantly, the prevalence (vs. existence) of rapists.

You’ve likely heard the [true] assertion that rape is about control, not sex, and if you’re a victim, you likely understand it well. For those who aren’t listening or don’t care to be, though, it has a tendency to relegate perspectives into the rapists-jump-out-of-bushes bin.

Yes, some rapists are sadistic f*cks who get off on helplessness, but 70% of rapes are perpetrated by an acquaintance, not a stranger. A rapist usually looks and acts like, well, possibly any of the men you know. And yes, a lot of them want sex - but it’s still about control.

Control means controlling the situation. Sitting in the drivers seat. Action taken based on your inclination alone. When the decision to have sex is unilateral, that’s a decision to rape. Silent agreement, silent acquiescence, and silent dissent all sound the same.

Problematic socialization of gendered sexual roles plays a role, of course, but it’s more than that. Virtually no bilateral interaction between two adults operates legitimately with unilateral consent to participate - we ask friends to hang out. We show up to work for a paycheck.

And when interactions aren’t bilateral, we recognize them as disnormative, even violative - the assumptive friend, the invasive family member, the boss who doesn’t pay, the too-close stranger on the train. So why would the decision to penetrate someone’s body ever be unilateral?

Because rape is about control.

And control over another is driven entitlement, conscious or unconscious apathy toward the way you affect others, and prioritizing yourself to the benefit of your wants or needs.

Privilege, in a nutshell.

So when women talk about rape culture, we still mean you, even if you’re not a rapist, because unless you listen and reframe your interactions accordingly (which includes not prioritizing your ego over our harm) you act like one.

And you provide safe harbor for those who are.

 

I think you should research the topic a little more before you speak on it. That is an extremely foolish statement.

The gender pay gap does not account for job type, experience level, education, etc. When normalized for those variables it disappears. On average men do more dangerous jobs. On average men do jobs in remote or harsh climates. On average men put in more hours of work. YADA, YADA, YADA.

 

THANK YOU! Finally some common sense (which I've found out isn't that common at all).

I've heard it spewed forth that Latino women make somewhere in the ball park of 53 cents on the dollar (as compared to men). Bernie Sanders is on among many who have touted this piece of misinformation, so it isn't just some crackpot in the fringes. If this were true, every business would aim to hire exclusively Latino women in the highest of positions. Money trumps (trigger warning) sexism. Since it is clearly not the case that these positions are comprised purely of Latino women, we are left with two possibilities...

1. that gender pay gap in relation to Latino women is bullshit
2. Latino women cannot perform the work to same level as their male counterparts

So to those proposing this gender pay gap nonsense, pick your poison. Which is it? Unless you think that investors are willing to throw out billions of dollars for sexism.

 

I take responsibility for my actions and my actions alone. I condemn those people that rape others and I believe they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.


PERIOD.