8th Ed. Firing over friendly units

[Cicocolala]

Hi! I'm still kinda new to the game, but me and my friend has settled on 8th ed and has played a few games now.

My friend who plays orks and goblins usually takes 3 spear chuckas and a tone of archers. This just crushes me every time. I still find the game fun and all, but I was wondering about firing over friendly units. Is it possible? We have figured that an archer och warmachine has the range to shoot over head of friendly troops unless they are close to the enemy or firing archer/warmachine.

But maybe the game is not ment to be played like that? Is it just line of sight, and that gets blocked if friendly units are in the way? Even if a bolt thrower has 46" range, the enemy is 36" away and a friendly unit is in the way, but 16" away from the bolt thrower?

 

[Lizards of Renown]

Hi! I'm still kinda new to the game, but me and my friend has settled on 8th ed and has played a few games now.

My friend who plays orks and goblins usually takes 3 spear chuckas and a tone of archers. This just crushes me every time. I still find the game fun and all, but I was wondering about firing over friendly units. Is it possible? We have figured that an archer och warmachine has the range to shoot over head of friendly troops unless they are close to the enemy or firing archer/warmachine.

But maybe the game is not ment to be played like that? Is it just line of sight, and that gets blocked if friendly units are in the way? Even if a bolt thrower has 46" range, the enemy is 36" away and a friendly unit is in the way, but 16" away from the bolt thrower?

First off, well done for choosing 8th Edition! I am a die-hard fan of it.

On your question, it depends if the Spear Chukkas are on a hill or not. The simplicity of the Line of Sight rules is can you put your eye next to the model and see the target. If you can't, then they can't shoot.

What are you fielding against the Spear Chukkas and Archers? What army do you play and what models do you have? I'm sure we can help you come up with some tactics to handle then

 

[Cicocolala]

First off, well done for choosing 8th Edition! I am a die-hard fan of it.

On your question, it depends if the Spear Chukkas are on a hill or not. The simplicity of the Line of Sight rules is can you put your eye next to the model and see the target. If you can't, then they can't shoot.

What are you fielding against the Spear Chukkas and Archers? What army do you play and what models do you have? I'm sure we can help you come up with some tactics to handle then

Hi! Yeah, I'd love some help surrounding army lists
I play lizardmen

We're still in the learning phase on a lot of the rules. We first played a total haywire 7th ed game where we learned the total basics. Then we've had 1 3 person game, but that one took too long and we didn't conclude it. Other than that there are 2 games I can mention.

We have not started using terrain yet, so so far the chuckas has been on ground level.

I'll post below the 2 previous games and then a list of what I've got to work with

(and yes, 8th seams like the perfect version of the game so far, I'm with you on that!)

 

[Cicocolala]

Don't know if the picture will make it in, but for our first game I brought 12 saurus warriors, 1 block of 11 skink cohort with a kroxigor in the unit, 1 unit of 10 skink skirmishers, 1 unit of a salamander with 4 handler and a Scer Vet on CO. All skinks had javelins.

My friend brought (I think, I'm counting off the picture) 24 goblin archers, 16 orc archers, 8 orc archers, 20 goblin archers, 15 goblins with spears, 14 orcs with 2 hand weapons and 1 goblin wizard.

This game went alright!
I fired my salamander and landed on 2 or 3 units, killed some orcs and goblins and then 2 or 3 of his units just fled off the table! so I got rid of his 24 goblin archers and 16 orc archer at least.
But then I screwed up when his goblins with spears charged my scar vet. I didn't read the rules for fleeing and thought that if they caught hin he'd still fight, but maybe at a dissadvantage. So I fled, they got him, we read the rule, and he was gone. Then It went rather evenly after that, but he won with a small margin.

 

[Cicocolala]

this was 500 points btw

 

[Cicocolala]

Second game we went with 1000 points.

I brought 1 block of 20 saurus warriors, 1 unit of 10 saurus warriors, 12 skink cohort with 1 kroxigor, 2 units of 10 skink skirmishers with javelins, 1 salamander with 4 handlers and an oldblood with shield, light armor and a great weapon on a carnosaur.

He brought 16 orc archers, 3 spear chuckas, 22 goblin archers, 15 goblins with spears, 10 black orks with a banner, another 2 units of 15 goblins with spears, another block of 22 goblin archers, 15 more goblins with spears, 10 additional black orcs, 1 swamptroll and a goblin wizard.

This went worse, I missed his troll with the salamander and killed 2 or 3 black orcs instead, then the salamander unit got killed by the black orcs. the 10 saurus warriors got in there, but at the end they were wiped out eventually. The carnosaur and skink cohort with the kroxigor got in a fight with a 15 goblin unit with spears and one 10 skink skirmishers unit got charged. the 20 block of saurus got in on their flank. His troll got in on the fight with the 10 saurus after the salamander got killed. in the end, as I said the saurus were wiped out and he had the black orc bannerman left and his troll.

After that the 2 goblin units got killed, but only 4 skinks were left in the charged unit. I tried charging up the table, but the carnosaur got shot out from under the scar vet and most of my forces got shot down before I got in to more close combat. But my scar Vet was a beast! He stuck around another 2 or 3 turns in close combat with a 15 goblin unit, but got killed when he got surrounded eventually.

 

[Cicocolala]

How do I upload images? ^^"

 

[Cicocolala]

So...

What I got is maybe 40-60 saurus warriors, maybe 40-50 skink skirmishers, 2 units of salamander hunting packs, Scar Vet/Oldblood on foot, 2 on CO and 1 on a carnosaur, 1 Trogolodon, 1 kroxigor, 1 stegadon, maybe 15 CO-riders, 5 temple guard + a banner, 1 skink wizard and 1 Slann and lord Kroak. And 1 painted chameleon skink.

What I have primed and ready to paint: a unit of terradon riders (3), Tehenhauin, Tetto eko, another carnosaur, 4 more temple guard, 1 stegadon, an oldblood on foot, 2 Chameleon skinks, 1 kroxigor and a bunch of skink skirmishers with javelins.

I am working on 2 more chameleon skinks that I'll convert from a blood bowl kit and put up in a couple of trees, so then I'll have 5 of them to put in a unit.

As of right now I'm thinking of weather to consentrate on the chameleons or the terradons to try and deal with my friends spear chukkas.





For our next game I've thought of the following list:

1000 p army:

Heroes: Tot 214p

Saurus scar vet 80p
-shield 4p
-light armor 6p
-great weapon 4p
-Mount Cold One 20p
Tot 114p

Skink priest 65p
-level 2 wizard 35p
Tot 100p

Rare: Tot 168p

2 st Salamander hunting pack 80p st
-additional handler 4p st
X2 hunting packs + 1 andler
Tot 168 p

Core:

Saurus warriors x18 (11p/model) 198p

Skink skirmishers javelins ((x15)x2) (7p/model) 210p

Special: Tot 210p

Cold One Riders x7 (30p/model) 210p

Army Tot: 1000p


The CO-riders are in there for protection of the Scar Vet and more wounds outlet. But I'm thinking of finnishing my 3 terradons and change them in for the CO-riders and put remaining points on skinks or saurus warriors.

Also, I've never used a wizard in a game, so that'll be totally new to me. Trying to deside that lore of magic to go with too.

 

[Lizards of Renown]

How do I upload images? ^^"

Just drag the JPEG or PNG file onto the text field and it will show up below asking whether you want to insert a full image or a thumbnail. Chose the thumbnail.

I'll answer your other posts above later.

 

[Cicocolala]

Oh! Yeah, sorry. Must've missed the comment-window on the screen, when I tried earlier the whole page just became the picture. Thanks!




First Game




Second game

 

[Lizards of Renown]

How do I upload images? ^^"

Just drag the JPEG or PNG file onto the text field and it will show up below asking whether you want to insert a full image or a thumbnail. Chose the thumbnail.

I'll answer your other posts above later.

So...

What I got is maybe 40-60 saurus warriors, maybe 40-50 skink skirmishers, 2 units of salamander hunting packs, Scar Vet/Oldblood on foot, 2 on CO and 1 on a carnosaur, 1 Trogolodon, 1 kroxigor, 1 stegadon, maybe 15 CO-riders, 5 temple guard + a banner, 1 skink wizard and 1 Slann and lord Kroak. And 1 painted chameleon skink.

What I have primed and ready to paint: a unit of terradon riders (3), Tehenhauin, Tetto eko, another carnosaur, 4 more temple guard, 1 stegadon, an oldblood on foot, 2 Chameleon skinks, 1 kroxigor and a bunch of skink skirmishers with javelins.

I am working on 2 more chameleon skinks that I'll convert from a blood bowl kit and put up in a couple of trees, so then I'll have 5 of them to put in a unit.

As of right now I'm thinking of weather to consentrate on the chameleons or the terradons to try and deal with my friends spear chukkas.





For our next game I've thought of the following list:

1000 p army:

Heroes: Tot 214p

Saurus scar vet 80p
-shield 4p
-light armor 6p
-great weapon 4p
-Mount Cold One 20p
Tot 114p

Skink priest 65p
-level 2 wizard 35p
Tot 100p

Rare: Tot 168p

2 st Salamander hunting pack 80p st
-additional handler 4p st
X2 hunting packs + 1 andler
Tot 168 p

Core:

Saurus warriors x18 (11p/model) 198p

Skink skirmishers javelins ((x15)x2) (7p/model) 210p

Special: Tot 210p

Cold One Riders x7 (30p/model) 210p

Army Tot: 1000p


The CO-riders are in there for protection of the Scar Vet and more wounds outlet. But I'm thinking of finnishing my 3 terradons and change them in for the CO-riders and put remaining points on skinks or saurus warriors.

Also, I've never used a wizard in a game, so that'll be totally new to me. Trying to deside that lore of magic to go with too.

Who are you playing against? O&G?

 

[The Great White Lizard]

Hello! Looks like you have quite the collection starting.

Also, I've never used a wizard in a game, so that'll be totally new to me. Trying to decide that lore of magic to go with too.

I usually go with high magic+focus of mystery on the slann just because the lore attribute makes it so versatile. Although I also think Wandering Deliberations, Life, and Light are all good options. For Slann it's ideal to TG bunker them, as it provides amazing protection and makes all the temple guard stubborn and immune to psychology. On flat tables, I sometimes use units of Skink Skirmishers to provide cover. If you have the time be sure to upload your next game in the battle reports section!

 

[Cptn Timmy]

Hi! Welcome to the greatness that is 8th! I believe that if your spear chukka is shooting over its own unit that provides soft(could be hard) cover. Unless the spear chukka is on a hill then no modifier applies. Luckily you are playing lizards so chameleon skinks can make quick work of most war machines. Also be sure your opponent isn't forgetting that if goblin spear chukkas roll a 1 to hit they roll in the misfire chart because of the shoddy craftsmanship! Good luck!

 

[Cptn Timmy]

Hey, you can stick your scar vet in with your Saurus block. That will protect him from all shooting except template based. So against OnG you only have to worry about the rock lobbas. This also provides an extended threat range for your block because he has a longer charge distance. In regards to your lore of magic, if you guys are just learning the magic system it might be helpful to go with a relatively cheap bare bones slaan. The upgrades our slaans get are excellent and have the ability to make them the best casters in the game but they are expensive and you probably want to know what you're getting for the points you're spending. There is an excellent tactica on lores and how to build your army around what lore you're using in the tactics section. I believe it is written by @Scalenex and i would strongly reccomend giving the slaan section a read. Good luck taking down those orcs and goblins, I will add that I have had lots of success with light magic or a high magic slaan switching in to light magic against OnGs.

 

[Lizards of Renown]

Hey, you can stick your scar vet in with your Saurus block. That will protect him from all shooting except template based. So against OnG you only have to worry about the rock lobbas. This also provides an extended threat range for your block because he has a longer charge distance.

If you are talking about a Scar Vet on Cold One, he has a different troop type to Saurus (Cavalry compared to Infantry) so doesn't get any Look Out Sir special benefits so can be targetted as if he wasn't in the unit.

In regards to your lore of magic, if you guys are just learning the magic system it might be helpful to go with a relatively cheap bare bones slaan. The upgrades our slaans get are excellent and have the ability to make them the best casters in the game but they are expensive and you probably want to know what you're getting for the points you're spending. There is an excellent tactica on lores and how to build your army around what lore you're using in the tactics section. I believe it is written by @Scalenex and i would strongly reccomend giving the slaan section a read. Good luck taking down those orcs and goblins, I will add that I have had lots of success with light magic or a high magic slaan switching in to light magic against OnGs.

I second this. @Scalenex's tactica is quite comprehensive and definitely worth reading.

 

[Cptn Timmy]

If you are talking about a Scar Vet on Cold One, he has a different troop type to Saurus (Cavalry compared to Infantry) so doesn't get any Look Out Sir special benefits so can be targetted as if he wasn't in the unit.

I could be wrong but I dont believe you can. On pg.99
If there are fewer than five rank-and-file models
left in the unit (or the character is of a different
troop type) there is a chance that any characters
in the unit could be hit — the controlling player
decides who is hit, but must allocate one hit on
each model before he can add a second hit on a
model; he must allocate two hits on each model
before he can allocate a third, and so on.

My interpretation of that was that I could allocate the hits onto the unit first. So if there is 30 saurus and a cowboy it would take 31 hits before regular shooting would have to be allocated on to the character.
Now he does not get a look out sir so any template or cannon shot he has no defense from.

 

[Cptn Timmy]

I am new to this, I dont know why that was added to your quote not just quoting the part you said. Sorry about that.
Edit i think I fixed it.

 

[The Great White Lizard]

If you are putting him in the saurus block, he is already slowed to the speed of the saurus. I would either drop the cold one or put him in a cold one rider bus.

 

[Cptn Timmy]

If you are putting him in the saurus block, he is already slowed to the speed of the saurus. I would either drop the cold one or put him in a cold one rider bus.

I definitely see the value in that. 2 extra s4 attacks in a challenge and +2 Armour save for 20 pts is a pretty good deal. I think it depends what you are facing. If your opponent has lots of ballistic skill based weapons it keeps him safe until those threats are dealt with, and it gives the tactical option if cutting a superior unit in half. Definitely all personal preference though.

 

[Lizards of Renown]

On pg.99 If there are fewer than five rank-and-file models left in the unit (or the character is of a different troop type) there is a chance that any characters in the unit could be hit — the controlling player, decides who is hit, but must allocate one hit on
each model before he can add a second hit on a model; he must allocate two hits on each model before he can allocate a third, and so on.

My interpretation of that was that I could allocate the hits onto the unit first. So if there is 30 saurus and a cowboy it would take 31 hits before regular shooting would have to be allocated on to the character. Now he does not get a look out sir so any template or cannon shot he has no defense from.

Hmmm... Interesting... I believe that you are correct. I've never used this rule in this way. It definitely makes the Cowboy option better with a unit.

@NIGHTBRINGER @Scalenex am I missing anything on this? I re-read the rulebook section and it does seem to offer at least some protection (obviously not as good as having the same troop type where they cannot be hit at all providing there are 5 models of the same troop type) from non-template shooting.