8th Ed. THE OLD WORLD - Poll: If GW were cutting back on TOW armies, which 5 would be the LEAST expendable?

I think you could easily have Warhammer without the ridiculous hat and romper suit-wearing neo-Germans and replace them with Bretonnia, who were more out-and-out ‘good guys’ than the Empire. The Empire certainly doesn’t dominate the lore in the league the Imperium dominates 40K for example - all you’d really need to do would be change the calendar system, probably to Bretonnian calendar, which wouldn’t be that difficult. Because the Empire are closest to Chaos, you could easily have a scenario where the Warriors of Chaos rise up and crush the Empire, but their sacrifice inflicts enough casualties for a combined alliance of Bretonnia and the Dwarfs to halt the Chaos invasion before it ravages the rest of the Old World. It’d be easy to rework the lore so that Ghal-Maraz either falls into the hands of the Bretonnians or returns to its original makers (the Dwarfs), and though it’d piss off people who play the Empire, GW didn’t mind pissing off Tomb King and Bretonnia fans, so it’s not as if we’d be doing something unheard of.

I would debate that they are iconic in a Warhammer sense, given they are just generic Hammer horror Transylvanian undead. One of my biggest arguments against GW keeping them at Tomb Kings’ expense is that they do nothing to build upon that trope, they simply copy-paste it into the Warhammer world. Pretty much every fantasy wargames ruleset under the sun has rules for Vampire Counts-style Undead. Also they’re pretty weak as a threat, being concentrated in a single Imperial province and a Bretonnian city next to each other. They may be iconic in a general sense, but certainly not in a Warhammer-specific sense...

Which, as you have mentioned in part, is what the Tomb Kings are. The Tomb Kings are admittedly based off an existing trope, but whereas Vampire Counts copy-paste their trope, Tomb Kings really build upon and expand theirs in a way that has never been seen since. They also hold a near-unique position of being a pretty neutral faction, which would certainly possible to retain in a new Warhammer Edition.

Though Wood Elves are pretty redundant as an Order faction given High Elves are infinitely more Order-aligned Elves, they can easily make up a second neutral faction alongside Tomb Kings. Both of these factions can help/hinder any of the other factions as befits their plans.

If TOW were to have reduced factions and follow my lore idea above, it’d be great to have it as:

Order:
Lizardmen (Still important given they are the Old Ones’ first creations and ultimate servants)
Bretonnia
Dwarfs
High Elves (Also iconic in our vote)

Destruction:
Warriors of Chaos
Orcs and Goblins
Skaven (Still pretty iconic both in our vote and in the whole of Warhammer)
Dark Elves (Not iconic in our vote but are pretty important to Elf lore - if we’re to have High Elves, we will need Dark Elves too)

Non-aligned:
Tomb Kings
Wood Elves

As awesome and unique as Beastmen are, unfortunately GW tried to turn them into Chaos’ answer to Orcs and Goblins and Warriors of Chaos’ whipping boy, which is one of the main reasons why they sadly don’t have much of a showing on our poll.

With regards to their playing ability, I’ve been discussing how to give them the best 8th Ed experience here:
https://eefl.freeforums.net/thread/...best-edition-experience?page=1&scrollTo=49228
You’re welcome to come and join the discussion - additional input is always welcome!

 

@The Great White Lizard : the second you mentioned Empire and Vampire counts I knew that @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl would descend upon you! LOL

 

@Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl I think those are fair points. However I think with the amount of work that GW has put into the empire and the game being titled 'The Old World' I will be shocked if the Empire doesn't show up. VC less so, but I still think it's pretty likely.

 

I agree. The Empire are basically the main protagonists of WFB. I think it would be foolish not to include them. As for the VC, they are extremely popular. One quick look at all the fantastic vampire themed models (Cursed city, Crimson Court, Blood Knights) and it feels pretty obvious that the VC would make for a logical inclusion in TOW.

Of course, in the end, we never know what GW will actually do!

 

[Nightbringer pokes Lord A with a stick, sits back and waits for reaction]

 

Who, me?

 

Yeah it is going to be obvious that Empire will be included as GW already included a preview map of the Empire in a TOW article aeons ago, and Vampire Counts will probably be there too because of those new plastic releases, and the fact that they were one of the first factions in Warhammer: Total War (taking priority over even Warriors of Chaos, who arguably should have had their spot alongside Greenskins, Dwarfs and Empire, but there we go). To be fair though they’ve pretty much confirmed Bretonnia and Tomb Kings will be there too (Tomb Kings with the Settra meme and Bretonnia with their own preview article more recently), so I’m not so worried now.

I was merely conjuring up the marvellous image of a Warhammer ‘what if’ scenario that featured the Warhammer World without two of the most irritatingly favoured factions in the setting, that will sadly always remain a pipe dream.

As fun as it might be for you to watch me go into a full-blown Hades rage at the idea of Vampire Counts being popular, I’ve largely given up on that for the sake of civil discussion, because it’s a fact that has already been confirmed to be true, though it pains me to say it, and because I’m too busy with other far more important things right now.

 

I definitely agree that the Empire and the VC are probably the most generic factions in Warhammer besides the elves. It would be great if GW stopped giving them so much favor, but I can't realisticly see that happen.

 

Gotta go with the most unique to Warhammer:
Lizardmen
Skaven
Orcs & Goblins
Daemons of Chaos

...and Dwarves, because they're awesome, and someone has to fight the Orcs, Goblins and Skaven underground for us.

Humans and Elves are in plenty of games. We don't need them in Warhammer. Besides, other than that one time they saved the world, what do they even accomplish?

I realize Orcs and Goblins are hardly original to Warhammer, but it seems to me that they hit their purest and funniest expression in this game.

 

@Lawot pretty fair. But I'd say chaos dwarves, beastmen, and the tomb kings are pretty unique.

 

@The Great White Lizard well, yes but...I don’t like them.

 

Hey, keep that grimdark BS out of our TOW.

 

It was deserved and necessary. To desecrate both the Chaos Dwarfs and the Tomb Kings in a single post was nothing short of blasphemy.

 

I know you are entitled to your own opinion, but disliking ALL THREE of those factions is strong. Even if Chaos Dwarfs and Beastmen aren’t to your taste, how could you not like Tomb Kings? They’re blooming awesome!

 

You seem to have somehow angered @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl , @NIGHTBRINGER , and @Lizards of Renown in a single sentence. Good luck.

 

@Lawot don't sweat it. My meme was not an attack, you're entitled to your opinions (as long as you don't try to enforce them on me )

 

Odd, I thought I answered this already.

Not fun for me at all. Merely pointing out that this happening. I don't like seeing anyone enraged and make an effort to have this not happen, to be honest.

I actually get a kick out of the few times you guys do agree as it comes off as quite funny (from both your reactions when it occures.

 

Mine was the final warning before we purge the heretics. jk

*NIGHTBRINGER smiles in evil*