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8th Ed. THE OLD WORLD - Poll: If GW were cutting back on TOW armies, which 5 would be the LEAST expendable?

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Discussion' started by NIGHTBRINGER, Dec 2, 2019.

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Which FIVE 8th edition armies would you choose to have a guaranteed transition into TOW?

  1. Beastmen

  2. Bretonnia

  3. Chaos Dwarfs

  4. Daemons of Chaos

  5. Dark Elves

  6. Dwarfs

  7. The Empire

  8. High Elves

  9. Lizardmen

  10. Ogre Kingdoms

  11. Orcs & Goblins

  12. Skaven

  13. Tomb Kings

  14. Vampire Counts

  15. Warriors of Chaos

  16. Wood Elves

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
    Slann

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Eleventh Spawning

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    I think you could easily have Warhammer without the ridiculous hat and romper suit-wearing neo-Germans and replace them with Bretonnia, who were more out-and-out ‘good guys’ than the Empire. The Empire certainly doesn’t dominate the lore in the league the Imperium dominates 40K for example - all you’d really need to do would be change the calendar system, probably to Bretonnian calendar, which wouldn’t be that difficult. Because the Empire are closest to Chaos, you could easily have a scenario where the Warriors of Chaos rise up and crush the Empire, but their sacrifice inflicts enough casualties for a combined alliance of Bretonnia and the Dwarfs to halt the Chaos invasion before it ravages the rest of the Old World. It’d be easy to rework the lore so that Ghal-Maraz either falls into the hands of the Bretonnians or returns to its original makers (the Dwarfs), and though it’d piss off people who play the Empire, GW didn’t mind pissing off Tomb King and Bretonnia fans, so it’s not as if we’d be doing something unheard of.
    I would debate that they are iconic in a Warhammer sense, given they are just generic Hammer horror Transylvanian undead. One of my biggest arguments against GW keeping them at Tomb Kings’ expense is that they do nothing to build upon that trope, they simply copy-paste it into the Warhammer world. Pretty much every fantasy wargames ruleset under the sun has rules for Vampire Counts-style Undead. Also they’re pretty weak as a threat, being concentrated in a single Imperial province and a Bretonnian city next to each other. They may be iconic in a general sense, but certainly not in a Warhammer-specific sense...
    Which, as you have mentioned in part, is what the Tomb Kings are. The Tomb Kings are admittedly based off an existing trope, but whereas Vampire Counts copy-paste their trope, Tomb Kings really build upon and expand theirs in a way that has never been seen since. They also hold a near-unique position of being a pretty neutral faction, which would certainly possible to retain in a new Warhammer Edition.

    Though Wood Elves are pretty redundant as an Order faction given High Elves are infinitely more Order-aligned Elves, they can easily make up a second neutral faction alongside Tomb Kings. Both of these factions can help/hinder any of the other factions as befits their plans.

    If TOW were to have reduced factions and follow my lore idea above, it’d be great to have it as:

    Order:
    Lizardmen (Still important given they are the Old Ones’ first creations and ultimate servants)
    Bretonnia
    Dwarfs
    High Elves (Also iconic in our vote)

    Destruction:
    Warriors of Chaos
    Orcs and Goblins
    Skaven (Still pretty iconic both in our vote and in the whole of Warhammer)
    Dark Elves (Not iconic in our vote but are pretty important to Elf lore - if we’re to have High Elves, we will need Dark Elves too)

    Non-aligned:
    Tomb Kings
    Wood Elves

    As awesome and unique as Beastmen are, unfortunately GW tried to turn them into Chaos’ answer to Orcs and Goblins and Warriors of Chaos’ whipping boy, which is one of the main reasons why they sadly don’t have much of a showing on our poll.

    With regards to their playing ability, I’ve been discussing how to give them the best 8th Ed experience here:
    https://eefl.freeforums.net/thread/...best-edition-experience?page=1&scrollTo=49228
    You’re welcome to come and join the discussion - additional input is always welcome! :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2021
  2. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    @The Great White Lizard : the second you mentioned Empire and Vampire counts I knew that @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl would descend upon you! LOL
    :D:D



    leo.gif

    !2.gif
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2021
  3. The Great White Lizard
    Cold One

    The Great White Lizard Well-Known Member

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    @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl I think those are fair points. However I think with the amount of work that GW has put into the empire and the game being titled 'The Old World' I will be shocked if the Empire doesn't show up. VC less so, but I still think it's pretty likely.
     
  4. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    I agree. The Empire are basically the main protagonists of WFB. I think it would be foolish not to include them. As for the VC, they are extremely popular. One quick look at all the fantastic vampire themed models (Cursed city, Crimson Court, Blood Knights) and it feels pretty obvious that the VC would make for a logical inclusion in TOW.

    Of course, in the end, we never know what GW will actually do! :p
     
    Imrahil and Lizards of Renown like this.
  5. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    [Nightbringer pokes Lord A with a stick, sits back and waits for reaction]
     
  6. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Who, me? :angelic:
     
  7. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
    Slann

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Eleventh Spawning

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    Yeah it is going to be obvious that Empire will be included as GW already included a preview map of the Empire in a TOW article aeons ago, and Vampire Counts will probably be there too because of those new plastic releases, and the fact that they were one of the first factions in Warhammer: Total War (taking priority over even Warriors of Chaos, who arguably should have had their spot alongside Greenskins, Dwarfs and Empire, but there we go). To be fair though they’ve pretty much confirmed Bretonnia and Tomb Kings will be there too (Tomb Kings with the Settra meme and Bretonnia with their own preview article more recently), so I’m not so worried now.

    I was merely conjuring up the marvellous image of a Warhammer ‘what if’ scenario that featured the Warhammer World without two of the most irritatingly favoured factions in the setting, that will sadly always remain a pipe dream.

    As fun as it might be for you to watch me go into a full-blown Hades rage at the idea of Vampire Counts being popular, I’ve largely given up on that for the sake of civil discussion, because it’s a fact that has already been confirmed to be true, though it pains me to say it, and because I’m too busy with other far more important things right now.
     
  8. The Great White Lizard
    Cold One

    The Great White Lizard Well-Known Member

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    I definitely agree that the Empire and the VC are probably the most generic factions in Warhammer besides the elves. It would be great if GW stopped giving them so much favor, but I can't realisticly see that happen.
     
  9. Lawot
    Kroxigor

    Lawot Active Member

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    Gotta go with the most unique to Warhammer:
    Lizardmen
    Skaven
    Orcs & Goblins
    Daemons of Chaos

    ...and Dwarves, because they're awesome, and someone has to fight the Orcs, Goblins and Skaven underground for us.

    Humans and Elves are in plenty of games. We don't need them in Warhammer. Besides, other than that one time they saved the world, what do they even accomplish?

    I realize Orcs and Goblins are hardly original to Warhammer, but it seems to me that they hit their purest and funniest expression in this game.
     
  10. The Great White Lizard
    Cold One

    The Great White Lizard Well-Known Member

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    @Lawot pretty fair. But I'd say chaos dwarves, beastmen, and the tomb kings are pretty unique.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2021
  11. Lawot
    Kroxigor

    Lawot Active Member

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  12. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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  13. xoid
    Razordon

    xoid Well-Known Member

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  14. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    It was deserved and necessary. To desecrate both the Chaos Dwarfs and the Tomb Kings in a single post was nothing short of blasphemy. ;)
     
  15. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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  16. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
    Slann

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Eleventh Spawning

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    [​IMG]

    I know you are entitled to your own opinion, but disliking ALL THREE of those factions is strong. Even if Chaos Dwarfs and Beastmen aren’t to your taste, how could you not like Tomb Kings? They’re blooming awesome!
     
  17. The Great White Lizard
    Cold One

    The Great White Lizard Well-Known Member

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  18. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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  19. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    Odd, I thought I answered this already.

    Not fun for me at all. Merely pointing out that this happening. I don't like seeing anyone enraged and make an effort to have this not happen, to be honest.

    I actually get a kick out of the few times you guys do agree as it comes off as quite funny (from both your reactions when it occures.
     
  20. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Mine was the final warning before we purge the heretics. ;) jk


    *NIGHTBRINGER smiles in evil*
     

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