It's about time we had another Controversy Meme, and this time, it's Disney films! Here's the template: And here is my complete version (assuming the live-action remakes are allowed): And now for my reasons: Favourite Character: Hades! Now given he's a villain he is also a good contender for the Favourite Villain category, but Hades as a fair amount of development outside being a villain - you can understand his annoyance and jealousy when the other gods snub his jokes and entertainment, and his lively, sneaky, double-dealing attitude sometimes you feel as though you want to root for him over his heroic nemesis Hercules. Favourite Villain: While Hades is one of my favourite villains, he is not the best as a villain in my eye. That title belongs to the Horned King from the Black Cauldron, chiefly because unlike Hades who has a comical and personable side that sometimes prompts you to root for him, the Horned King does not, and that makes him a whole lot more villainous. Superbly played by the late John Hurt, the Horned King is wholly sinister, ruthless and callous, as well as having some truly powerful villain music. Favourite Movie: While I enjoy both Hercules and The Black Cauldron, Hercules has some tacky 90s catchphrases and The Black Cauldron hasn't much in the way of comedy. That's why I've nominated Robin Hood as my favourite Disney movie - it's not meant to be historically accurate in every way, it's meant mainly to be cheery and a whole lot of fun, with the hilarious aftermath of the archery tournament being probably one of my favourite animated scenes ever. And yet, even here there is a dark period, when Friar Tuck is captured and sentenced to death and all the other villagers of Nottingham languish in a miserable, dank cell, while Prince John gets ever more evil and megalomanical in his obsession with capturing Robin Hood, which is a nice change from all the comedy at the beginning and shows that when the villains get mean, things do get pretty darn bad for the heroes. Despised Character: One of three major rants I have about the Jungle Book remake is how they portrayed Baloo - a character who is a cheery, happy-go-lucky best buddy to Mowgli in the original is turned into an initially selfish and uncaring character who's quite willing to let Mowgli get stung to death just to get him a meal, who then briefly turns into the original Jungle Book Baloo when they sing 'Bare Necessities' before returning to his selfish self later on in the film. I've never read the actual book so can't say which portrayal of Baloo is more accurate at the moment, but certainly until I do read it, I'm labelling this portrayal of him as being far inferior to Phil Harris' version. I can't think of any other characters from films that I've seen that I actively dislike, though if I think of one I'll add it to this paragraph. Despised Villain: The second rant is how they changed Kaa. Not content with Disney changing Kaa to a villain in the original, the team behind the remake not only keep Kaa as a villain (and with regards to the comments about him being creepy, surely that is good given he's a villain?), but change his gender to please the female supremacists, so that when she sings Kaa's song, all the python comes across as is tarty (which is actually quite fitting given the actress voicing her is better known for her chest than her acting talent). Not only that, but she also only appears in a single scene of this film before being flattened by Bagheera. By far the worst villain appearance I've seen. If the remakes are not allowed in this discussion, I would instead vote Shan Yu to be the worst villain - though I haven't seen Mulan all the way through, I do know he has a ridiculously stupid defeat and death which stops me from taking him seriously. Also his nationality is historically inaccurate (the Huns attacked Rome, not China, if anything Shan Yu would be a Mongol). Despised Movie: And if it wasn't clear already, the Jungle Book remake is also by far the least favourite Disney film I've seen, principally because of these changes, and also that Colonel Hathi was cut out pretty much entirely, King Louie was inexplicably made ridiculously huge and while Idris Elba is a decent actor, his Shere Khan was not a patch on that of the legendary George Sanders. In fact the only things I do not dislike in this version were the porcupine character voiced by Gary Shandling (Vern from Over the Hedge) and the appearance of Rikki-Tikki-Tavi, a mongoose character from the original book (though even then he didn't have much of an appearance). If the remakes are not allowed in this discussion, I would instead vote for one of the many films I see as extremely forgettable, like Aladdin, The Lion King, Chicken Little or The Incredibles, or the evil satanic-cult-creator that is Frozen (though I've never actually seen it, just been tortured by the songs). Overrated Movie: Certainly of all those subpar films I mentioned previously, The Lion King appears to be by far the most beloved by the overall majority, so it has to take the place of Most Overrated Movie. I just can't understand the hype behind it all - a storyline that rips off Hamlet among other things, cringeworthy safari-theme songs and a villain that does very little himself and relies upon servants to do anything of note. Also perhaps it's because lions were never my favourite wild animal to begin with. Underrated Movie: The Black Cauldron takes the second of its glory spots on the list. Released in 1985, the only reason it failed at the box office was that it was too scary for the kiddies at that time. Though I admit having a (now deleted) scene with a man's flesh sloughing from his bones as he turns into a Cauldron Born may be a bit much, the rest of it isn't that different from the darker family films of today (Kung Fu Panda 2 is a particular example of this), and I think if it had been shown two or three decades later it would have become a lot more appreciated and may well have done better at the box office. Certainly people rate it a lot more than they used to (though sceptics will always exist) and I personally love how different it is from the usual singalong-happy-day fare of Disney. Spoiler: In case you haven't seen it Also I like how the film subverts the Hero's Journey trope by having the flawed hero give away his magic sword, not defeat the villain himself and effectively say 'sod this war crap, it's overrated and I'm going to go back to being a swineherd, come on friends let's go home'. Best Song: While I'm a particular fan of the songs from Robin Hood and the original Jungle Book, my favourite song is very short, very snappy and deliciously creepy - the Underworld intro from Hercules. Wailing and groaning chorals make it as if the souls of the Underworld themselves are singing, while the slow tempo of the song matches the slow, relentless punting of the skeletal Charon the ferryman perfectly. All the while Hades is standing on his ship, casually incinerating problematic Shades with hellfire and tossing a chunk of meat to Cerberus as if he's just driving to work in the morning (which, of course, he pretty much is). Worst Song: Here it is. I have to resist trembling as I type its name into this post on my keyboard. The abhorrent Let It Go that has somehow become hailed as one of the most popular songs of the 21st Century. Humanity really has lost pretty much all knowledge of what culture is if such caterwauling can become so revered among the majority. Perhaps my hatred of this dirge was influenced by the fact that when I used to go to college, there were also a load of 13-16 year old girls on the bus, some of whom used to sing it regularly, but I still think it a genuinely awful song. I don't know who Idina Menzel is but I think she needs to keep having singing lessons. Most Overrated Character: Personally I think Olaf is one of the most overrated comic-relief characters of all time, and this is coming from a guy who likes most comic-relief characters, including among others, Dobby, Jar Jar, Gurgi and Mr. Bean. I haven't seen Frozen as I've said before (thank the Gods) but it's pretty well-known that his entire routine is pretty much the same few snowman jokes over and over again. Also he is one of those characters that some find strangely adorable and others find absolutely sickening. My opinion is obviously the latter. Most Underrated Character: I've got a sad joke for you - when is a princess not a princess? When she's called Eilonwy and she's from The Black Cauldron. I'd better give that joke back to Disney now before they copyright it. What's even more sad is that as part of their 'Disney Princess' clan, the House of Mouse is quite happy to include characters that are no more of royal blood than I am, yet they'd never let Eilonwy in the club even though she is from a Disney movie and has 'Princess' in her title (and was without doubt of royal blood in the novel series the film was based on, The Chronicles of Prydain), just because her film was too scary for the kiddiwinks. Personally I think Eilonwy is one of the better female characters, because she manages to be a strong female character before the female supremacist era turned strong female characters up to 11. The biggest problem I have with feminism is that it doesn't actually redeem femininity in any way, it just encourages women to adopt more traditionally 'masculine' behaviours (promiscuity, aggression, lack of emotion). Eilonwy's different in that she is recognisably feminine (she's emotional and recoils in a suitably feminine manner at the Cauldron Born), but at the same time she has the backbone to stand up for herself and use her initiative to get out of trouble, which is a sign of inner strength. Anyone can develop inner strength, male or female, and Eilonwy is a personification of a female example of this philosophy. Anyway, I look forward to seeing what you all come up with!
My word, you disappoint me... Perhaps you all need a little encouragement. First, my fellow late-90s/early 2000s kids, I summon you! Our time has arrived! @Infinity Turtle @ASSASSIN_NR_1 @Lizerd @DeathBringer125 @Paradoxical Pacifism Next, my fellow film analysts and critics who gave great responses to my DreamWorks controversy Meme thread, I bid you respond! @Aginor @Scalenex @Killer Angel @LizardWizard And above all, the mighty @NIGHTBRINGER , the critic of critics, I would have thought you'd have put in your fourpenneth by now given your hobby of chatting about films, in particular because I remember your voiced disgust at Shan Yu's ridiculous death, so you must have at least some opinion on Disney movies.
I wish I could offer more, but most Disney movies were so bad I was day dreaming about dinosaurs when watching them hands down favorite is the monkey, most despised Olaf Favorite villain: the hun guy in Mulan, most despised Elsa after years of marketing I only see a frenzied rage when the name is mentioned Favorite movie, might be mulan for the dragon, and least favorite frozen most over rated: all the damn princess movies most under rated: honestly I’m blanking as hardcore Disney stans froth over all of them Favorite song: be prepared most hated: let it go (again, played incessantly in school to a point of torture) Most over rated character: mufasa most under rated: the monke in aladdin, that ape hard carried the movie
Perhaps you'd like the actual Disney film Dinosaur? That was a pretty good one I felt. I see I was not the only one to be driven mad by Frozen in my teenage years (Even now I still see its effect on the female gender as positively sinister, almost like catnip to cats) I assume you mean Abu?
yes, monke supremacy. the scene where he whipped out the sword and got into a knife fight was baller as for disney's dinosaur i have mixed feelings on it. the plot was decent but as someone who also appreciates accuracy, there is a lot that is horribly off putting
By the way, if anyone hasn't read the Chronicles of Prydain series, I recommend them. They're young adult and quick to read. Very familiar themes but some nice twists and a certain charm to the story.
I certainly recognise that the film of The Black Cauldron was only based on them quite loosely, and they are on my fantasy novel bucket list. Trouble is, I've still already got loads of books to read...
Okay, let it be done, but I'm too lazy to photoshop the pictures into the template . For my list, I'll only be considering the classically animated Disney movies, as that feels like a more fair comparison. No live action and no CGI films! Some of these are a bit tough because it has been a good number of years since I've seen quite a few of these films (and some that I have never seen at all). Favourite Character➽ Sebastian or Baloo - If I really had to pick, I'll go with Sebastian, but it is virtually a coin toss. They both have great voices and sing some of the very best songs in the Disney lineup. Baloo is inherently the more lovable character but there is just something about that silly crab. Everything proceeds against his better judgment and it makes for a fun ride. Along with Scuttle, he adds a fun bit of levity to the movie. Despised Character➽ Mowgli - The Jungle Book has some of the very best Disney characters. Baloo, King Louie, Bagheera, Kaa, Shere Khan, Colonel Hathi and the "Beatles" vultures are all fantastic. But Mowgli does not belong among these greats. I understand his role, as he is the central figure around which the others can shine, but I have never liked him. I find him annoying and bratty. His whiney voice gets under my skin. Most Overrated Movie➽ Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs - It's probably just a generational thing, but I've never really enjoyed it. I love some of the older movies (Jungle Book and 101 Dalmatians), but Snow White simply feels too dated for me. Most Underrated Movie➽ Hercules - Always been a guilty pleasure of mine. I think the story is fun and the characters are great. Best of all, I love the huge pay off of the golden thread of life at the end which cannot be cut. It is perhaps a bit too goofy and cheesy here and there (which is why it would never crack my top 5) but overall, it is an enjoyable film. Hades, is easily the standout character of the movie. Honorable mention goes to the movie Robin Hood, which is another hidden gem. Favourite Villain➽ Hades - Probably the most memorable villain for me, and easily the show stealer in his movie. The voice acting (James Woods) on Hades is really great, as his lively animation makes for a captivating villain. The other two villains that I really like are Shere Khan the tiger and Scar, both of which, like Hades, benefit from great voice acting. Despised Villain➽ Cinderella's step-sisters - annoying and obnoxious. I can feel myself get physically irritated when they are on screen. During the scene where they are ripping Cinderella's dress, I have an overwhelming desire to throat punch them. Of course, you are supposed to hate them, so I can't say that they are bad villains... but I sure as hell despise them. Favourite Song➽ Under the Sea - just winning out over Baloo's The Bare Necessities and King Louie's I wanna be like you. Under the Sea gains extra points for how well the song and the animation work together. It's so colourful and upbeat. Despised Song➽ The Siamese cat song - it sounds awful. What more can I say? Favourite Movie➽ The Little Mermaid - Ariel and her three compatriots (Sebastian, Flounder and Scuttle) are all on point. The animation is nice and the music is even better (overall probably my favourite set of musical set pieces, although the Lion King and the Jungle Book give it a good run for its money). The story is simple but great, a classic fish out of water tale of star crossed lovers. The interplay and contrast of the ocean and land worlds is also a plentiful source of great moments. The Little Mermaid marks the start of the Disney golden age for me running from 1989 to 1994. During that time they released four of my top six favourite Disney movies of all time. Despised Movie➽ Alice in Wonderland - despised is probably too harsh of a term. Alice in Wonderland just simply doesn't do it for me. I've probably only seen it a couple of times (ages ago) but can hardly recall any of it. It just never made an impact on me and was simply too strange for my liking. Most Overrated Character➽ Snow White - In the same vain as my most overrated movie. She simply does not live up to the Disney princess that were to eventually follow. I think she gets a lot of undeserved hype for simply being the first. Most Underrated Character➽ Shere Khan - He is sometimes lost among the backdrop of fantastic characters found in the Jungle Book. But he is such a menacing villain (for a Disney movie). He has a screen presence about him, resulting from his wonderful voice acting and the way that the other characters interact with him and speak about him. In any scene that he is in, there is no doubt that he is in charge. That still bugs me to this day. There is no way Mulan even remotely holds her own against this guy in a sword fight: He has every advantage over her: strength, skill, experience, toughness, etc. Of course, he is the villain and he has to lose, but they already demonstrated a winning recipe for doing so. When Mulan thinks outside of the box and causes the avalanche, that is the type of thinking that should have been employed in the grand finale. Not going directly up against his strengths, but rather circumventing them somehow. Such a wasted villain. Plus, he had one of the greatest scenes in Disney villain history:
So this was harder than I anticipated, as I seemingly can't make up my mind, but for the sake of actually contributing, here we go: I have taken the liberty of including pixar and the newer live-action movies into consideration. Favourite Character: I couldn't really choose here, and I'm not even sure that either of these three are my favorites, but they seemed like my best answer at the moment. Interestingly none of them are completely "human", maybe that is a factor? I'm not sure. Either way, I like the design of Stitch quite a bit, it is rather unique, and his character is fun while also being somewhat relatable and his character arch is nice - he never becomes someone different as such, but learns that not everything should be destroyed, there is a lot of things that are worth taking care of. In terms of Kenai - I find that I understand his character's choices quite well, and they seem believable, he is not perfect and does not end up being so at the end of the movie either, he just learned to forgive and cherish the memories he had of his brother, and learned to be there for others, and not just do things for his own benefit - which is just a nice thing. Bagheera: Well I just like cats, so that's one reason. There is also the fact that he is kind of a surrogate farther to Mowgli (the little idiot), but I find that I quite enjoy those kinds of characters. He is also generally the ONLY voice of reason in the movie, and I do like reason. Favourite Villain: Again I could not choose just one. Hades is just a fun villain, he has all these schemes that almost work out, and when they don't he throws a temper tantrum. He's just a quite likable villain, and does not just use brute force or is this big menacing figure, no instead he is just smart (at least in Disney standards), and works behind the scenes, which is a breath of fresh air compared to most villains that I can think of. Scar is a great villain, his plan actually succeeds, right at the beginning of the movie, and he even kills another character, which is not too common in Disney movies, certainly not anymore. The voice acting is supreme and sells the character well. He is also a villain that does not really get beaten by the hero of the movie, rather he mostly is the bane of himself, as he is bad at ruling and slips up in the end and confesses that the hyenas are just tools, which is what ultimately dooms him. Favourite Movie: Not sure I have one - there are lots of movies that I like, and a good bunch that I don't. but for the sake of the "challenge", I'll go with Brother Bear. The reason being that I like the overall message, the music is nice and the 2D animation style suits it perfectly. It's probably not the best movies in any one of its aspects, but as a whole it just works for me. Despised Character: There could have been other characters here, say Mickey Mouse, although after having played Kingdom Hearts I've come to tolerate him. It could have been Mulan from the live action remake, and more. I've chosen Peter Pan, because he, in my opinion, is the worst character in his movie, I mean what does he actually do? He just flies around, being dumb and his design is awful, he looks like someone I would very much like to punch in the face (I get you Captain Hook). Despised Villain: I utterly despise Claude Frollo, and not just in a Disney context, he is manipulative in such a way, that I hope he falls and dies in every scene, the way he hurts quasimodo and pretends to be his friend and protector - ugh. Most of all though he is religious fanatic and if there is something I cannot stand is is religious fanaticism and religion in general - I can get worked up just by writing about it, so I'll stop here. Despised Movie: The live-action remake of Mulan and Frozen 2 are simply terrible. The mulan remake seems to want to make something different, but ends up changing a lot of stuff seemingly just to be different with no other reasoning behind it. There also seems to be no real message with the movie, and it just focuses on how amazing Mulan is, which might be because she is a woman, or at least that is the impression that I got. Now I don't mind women being awesome at stuff and having lead roles at all, but when the only justification is that they are a woman, then it's just bad writing, and ultimately has nothing to do with them being a woman and so just comes across forced, unnecessary and failing at what it probably wanted to say. Where Frozen 2 is concerned... well it's just a completely irrelevant movies, NOTHING actually happens from beginning to end, there are no consequences to anything. Oh Elsa died - oh no she didn't, and oh no Arendelle and the people are going to be destroyed - oh no it didn't, and that is the whole movie. Now there's also just loads of plot points that doesn't make sense. For instance she gets called on by some spirit, which ultimately isn't actually anything, and ends up being herself - so she leads herself on some wild goose chase and almost kills herself? Really? I'm supposed to buy that as good storytelling? Another great contender here, is Raya and the Last Dragon, that has pretty much the same problem as Frozen 2 - No consequences, but also no exploration of the world and too many places and characters, which makes it fall completely flat and you just don't care about what happens - I suppose this movies was made for a younger audience than usual for Disney and atypically with nothing for the adults. Overrated Movie: I don't think I need to elaborate on my explanation from Despise movie. Underrated Movie: There is a couple of movies that are underrated and somehow gets overshadowed by other, I'd say objectively worse movies, but maybe they are just addressed to the lowest denominator, like it is with so many games. Anyway, I almost never see/hear Brother Bear mentioned when something about Disney comes up, which is a shame, since it's a more unique Disney movie that so many others. Maybe it was released at the wrong time, and had it been around the same time as The Lion King, it might have been remembered just as well - who knows. I know I like it. Best Song: I think songs is an area where Disney does a consistently good job, so there is A LOT of good songs to choose from. I've gone with the credits song for Cars 3. Firstly I just think it sounds nice, and has a good beat. it also gets a general message from the movies across, which I find nice. Worst Song: Everything in Bambi. Now to make it clear, I don't dislike the movie at all, but the music is not at all to my tastes, it is way too classical, in a way my ears do not find pleasant for some reason, or at least kinda boring. Most Overrated Character: Mickey Mouse - I just don't get what there is to like about him and I always felt he took the limelight from Donald Duck, which to has always seemed a vastly more interesting character. Mickey is just the good guy with no nuance whatsoever. His design is boring and I dislike his voice. Most Underrated Character: Shere Khan is a great villain, for the same reasons as NIGHTBRINGER has already mentioned. I guess he falls behind for most, due to his relatively small amount of screen time in the movie, and that we don't really see him doing much when he is there, instead we are mostly just told of how afraid everyone is of him.
Absolutely! 1. Robin Hood 2. Hercules 3. The Black Cauldron 4. The Jungle Book 5. Basil the Great Mouse Detective 6. The Emperor's New Groove 7. The Sword in the Stone 8. 101 Dalmatians 9. Dumbo 10. Zootropolis (though this one may rise through the ranks upon rewatchings as I've only seen it once but it was very good, easily the best Disney has made in modern times). Are you going to make a full contribution to the meme?
Any interesting list comprised of many of the lesser known (or less established) films. I'll have to go through all the movies and make my list.
As promised here is my top ten list. Coming as no surprise, it is very much different from @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl 's list (although a few titles do make it onto both of our lists). I limited my selections to classically animated movies only, otherwise either Finding Nemo or Cars would have likely slipped into the 10th place spot. The Little Mermaid The Lion King The Jungle Book 101 Dalmatians Aladdin Beauty and the Beast Hercules Robin Hood Tarzan The Fox and the Hound
This would be my list. It also is a lot of classics, mostly because of the impact they had when I watched them/memories I have of watching them. 1. Robin Hood 2. Treasure Planet 3. Hercules 4. Tarzan 5. Brother Bear 6. Lion King 7. Bambi 8. The Princess and the Frog 9. Pocahontas 10. Aristocats Grrr, Imrahil