Warhammer Meme thread

Only if you consider the End Times to be canon. I reject the End Times. 8th edition lives on!

Even on the 8th edition battlefield the Empire were at least on par with the Dwarfs. They were both solid mid-tier armies.

In lore, it felt as though the Empire were a growing race, while the Dwarfs were a dwindling one. The Dwarfs' best days were behind them.

 

I have that nightmare. Wolflords with wolfguard.

 

NIGHTBRINGER > Games Workshop (at least in my mind )

They can label things like the End Times, sequel trilogy, Rings of Power, M-she-U shows and Star Trek Discovery "canon", but I'm not buying what they are peddling. They aren't the original creators/authors (like Tolkien, Stan Lee or George Lucas), so they have little actual authority from my perspective. They hold no power over me.

I agree, at the time of 8th edition, Dwarf tech was better than that of the Empire... rivaled only by the Chaos Dwarfs (who have the same skill level, but are more willing to adapt and create new technologies). I was merely extrapolating how things would unfold if the lore continued hundreds or thousands of years into the future. Go far enough down the timeline and the descendants of the Dwarfs would still produce the best traditional cannons, but the descendants of the Empire would have nukes.

As for a snapshot in time (being current day 8th edition), the Empire will never be the best at any one thing. They are, by design, a jack of all trades army. They won't beat the specialists in their respective fields, but they are strong/competent across the board.

 

I FOUND THE ORIGINAL RANT THREAD THAT STARTED IT ALL...

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/cotec/do-you-guys-realize-how-unfair-the-chaos-lord-is-t3636.html

 

If you consider Warhammer: Total War to be canon, *Hippogryph Knights enter the fray* .

Not while the Dawi still have engineering geniuses like Burlok Damminson, his son Grimm Burloksson and Malakai Makaisson, and more pragmatic, less dogmatic leaders like Thorgrim (who is still alive, none of that End Times bull). Thorgrim understood the balance between preserving tradition enough to not be seen as mad or controversial, but also being more open-minded and open to adaptation than the standard Dwarf.

I'm sure in the past you yourself have claimed the Dwarfs are upper-mid tier due to their dominance in the Shooting Phase, supreme anti-magic and better melee ability, while Empire are steadfast mid-tier due to their jack-of-all-trades nature.

But on the other hand amidst that 'growth' the Imperial City States are still trying to stab each other in the back and hamper each other's development to make themselves look like the top dog, while the Dwarfs have been unified pretty much since their race was first created, and would never engage in the dishonour of sabotage. Not to mention the incompetence of many Imperial leaders over the years has set their nation back a lot. Who's to say that Karl Franz's successor won't be an inbred maniac or a ruthless tyrant?

You could argue that the Skaven rival the Empire for second place - true their war machines are perhaps more ramshackle, but their inventiveness is easily superior to the Empire, and perhaps the Dwarfs as well.

Considering that by the time of 8th Edition the Dwarfs had developed one-man flamethrowers (Drakeguns), ironclad ships that are not dependent on wind power and have the monopoly on flying machines both large and small, I wouldn't dismiss them so easily. Not to mention that while being traditionalistic, they are not stupid. If they saw the manlings develop something new, I don't see why some Dwarf Engineers wouldn't try to develop something as effective but more reliable (as all Dwarf stuff is), if not better, to avoid their race being shown up by the upstarts. That sort of humiliation would be worthy of the Slayer Oath.

 

I don't.

A video game is totally different. When I played Space Marine on Xbox 360 way back in the day, I single handedly killed thousands of Orcs and CSMs. That doesn't mean that a Space Marine is canonically that powerful. Plus, the power levels in a game like Total War are constantly in flux with updates and patches.

A few exceptions to the rule. On a whole, the humans (especially the Empire) are far more willing to adapt, innovate and evolve.

Yes, they are both mid-tier. Personally, I'd be more weary of facing the Dwarfs, but that is subjective. Others I've spoken to have felt differently. I'm not sure if one has a significantly better winning percentage than the other. An army like the Dark Elves are definitively better, while an army like the Beastmen are definitively worse. The Dwarfs and the Empire are in the same ballpark.

I don't doubt for a second that the Dwarfs are significantly more unified (assuming that we are excluding the Chaos Dwarfs versus Dwarfs relationship). That said, competition and warfare can be significant instigators of technological innovation. Our own real life history is proof of that.

Alongside of the Chaos Dwarfs, the Skaven are easily the most inventive.

The Empire does have the Mechanical Steed. Despite having its share of problems, such a technology is more advanced than Flamethrowers or airships (as evidenced by the fact that we have helicopters, blimps and flamethrowers, but not a mechanical steed that can fully replicate the movements of a war horse).

On the whole, the Dwarfs produce better quality equipment, but the Empire is more adaptive and more willing to evolve. It kind of mirrors them as races, where the Dwarfs stagnate (or are in decline), while the Empire, despite short term setbacks, are on the rise.

The humans of the Empire are simply more willing to "think outside the box". They have a different mentality as compared to the vanilla Dwarfs.

I think Dwarf pride would get in the way of that. I don't see them trying to copy (even with the addition of improvements) human engineering.

 

My point isn't that it doesn't exist, only that it carries no more merit in my eyes than something that you or I might scribble down onto a page. The author(s) of the End Times were not the creators of the lore they destroyed. A person like George R.R. Martin can do whatever he likes with ASOIAF and whether it is good or bad, I believe it to be canon. Same for George Lucas or Tolkien, etc. However, if a random author comes along and adds to someone else's work, then I view it as canon only if it is good and reject it if it is bad.

That's the way I treat it, even if it differs from the norm. I get it that "officially" canon is whatever the financially controlling interest of the IP deems it to be. But that is just a business decision. I don't view Kathleen Kennedy's interpretation of Star Wars canon as canon. Why should I? Just because she was tasked to make such calls by those that financially purchased the IP? She doesn't love it or understand it to the level that I do (and there are those FAR more devoted than me). The world has seen her canon and rejected it. Why would I accept her de-canonization of the EU when George Lucas himself authorized it?

Much like Disney Star Wars, most people (at least from an anecdotal perspective) have rejected the End Times. If people want to blindly follow corporate canon, that is their call. Sheep to my wolf!

Perhaps surprisingly to some, I actually don't want one! I love having a consistent and unchanging game (the only thing I would have wished for would have been the release of the last three books, the completion of the Tamurkhan series and a final FAQ for all factions). All the new stuff is being updated and changed far too frequently for my liking.

My worry is that some might view ToW to be the next edition of WFB (despite it taking place in the past). Unless GW really surprises me (which is possible), I'll happily stick with my good old reliable 8th edition.

That's why its fun to extrapolate, analyze and predict.

At the end of the day, it is all just make-believe!

 

...and the most likely to blow themselves up.

Not to mention the Steam Tanks of various makes.

Ehhhh... I'm kind of torn on this one. Dwarf tech is more reliable, shall we say, whereas Empire tech is a little more inventive. They both have their good points.

............

The word 'duh' cannot BEGIN to describe the 'duh-ness' of those two sentences.

 

That's no Nurgle... it is the real fifth Chaos God, without his spots but otherwise in all his destructive glory...

Spoiler: The Fifth Chaos God, if you dare wish to look upon him...

 

Correct. Officially at that point it is "collecting." COMPLETELY different issue.