In line with a pervious poll, Star Wars vs. Star Trek, we now pit Star Wars against perhaps a worthier contender (maybe even one great enough to fell the mighty Star Wars in terms of popularity)... The Lord of the Rings + The Hobbit!! Which do you like better? You might like one or the other, perhaps both, or possibly neither.... but of the two which do you prefer? Include (or exclude!) whatever you like from either franchise. If you don't like the Sequel Trilogy or The Rings of Power, don't consider either of them in your choice. Everything is fair game from either franchise (expanded universe, Silmarillion, books, movies, video games, etc.). Vote and discuss!
From about 12 to 16, Star Wars was huge. My collection of books I read for fun was about 60% expanded universe books. I always enjoyed RPGs. From 12 to 16, my RPG of choice was Star Wars RPG from West End Games. I even tried creating my own sci-fi universe that was about 50% Star Wars inspired, 50% Star Trek inspired. It kind of fell through, but I have my old notes. From a movie standpoint, I enjoy re-watching LOTR more than Star Wars now though I do not lot believe the Hobbit movies are worth a re-watch (they weren't terrible, I just don't want to watch them multiple times much like the Star Wars prequels). From age 30 to now, LOTR has been bigger in my life than Star Wars. Right now I am trying to create my own fantasy world following the example of the GOAT fantasy writer, JRR Tolkien. I'm also developing a homebrew RPG system. I intended this for personal use, but who knows, with Wizards of the Coast killing the goose that laid the golden egg, maybe Scarterra d10 will be able to one day rise to ascendancy. There is still room in my heart for both franchises.
It's a difficult one, but i gave my vote to star wars. (I've tried to consider ALL the franchise from both) To make things short: LOTR is a film masterpiece, based upon a literature masterpiece that defined fantasy, a rich and detailed world with a deep and developed background, that explores human nature. Star Wars is basically a western in space, born with the idea to create a sense of wonder. It created a whole new way to think sf movies, but its depth is not even remotely similar to Tolkien 's, altough It's a different kind of masterpiece. However, LOTR is a single gem of extraordinary beauty and atm things are only going downhill. Hobbit is a trilogy with much lesser value and the try to modify Tolkien's work with RoP failed miserably. On the other side, Star Wars universe, even if subject to horrible products that i'm not going to name, is a universe that can be expanded and that can be approached also with an increasing depth, as testified by shows as Clone Wars or Andor, and products that are superior to the original ones.
Easy one for me, Middle-Earth. While both prequel trilogies are obviously my favourites and are at a tie, I enjoy the Lord of the Rings trilogy miles more than the Star Wars Original Trilogy. There's nothing in the Middle-Earth saga so far that I actually dislike (I'm completely ignoring Rings of Power when I say this), whereas Star Wars there's quite a fair amount I dislike as well as like (Ewoks, Ahsoka, L3-37, the Han/Leia arguefest 'romance', the cheesy hero-invincibility plot points of the Original Trilogy, the whole of the Sequel Trilogy). True, Star Wars has Rogue One (and potentially Andor when I eventually see it) on its side, but I'm sure that Middle-Earth could come up with something equally as good if they brought PJ back and gave him writers who genuinely cared about Tolkien to work with, as he had for the Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit trilogies. They're still publishing books of various Tolkien writings even now, so I'm sure PJ could bring some solid adaptations of those to life.
Movies alone would have put Star wars at the top, but the depth of Tolkien's literature gets me every time! Every re-read has me noting perspectives I missed, and I think I own as many printed copies of The Hobbit as I do vhs/dvds/etc. of Jurassic Park (many being the number...). It's also the first book I picked up on my own as a kid (JP was my first purchase from a second charity shop, a steal at 75 cents!)
Andor stepped up for me. Also has a certain favorite actor from LotR and the last Star Wars trilogy in it...I hope you enjoy it too!
Finished the Silmarillion a few weeks back after re-reading LotR in prep for an Adventures in Middle Earth rpg I am running...and I read all the songs/poems and enjoyed them! Funnily enough, younger me would have answered Star Wars. Visually appealing, epic score, memorable villains, I could go on. Whilst smol me saw LotR in cinemas and thought they were amazing...I remember enjoying the Star Wars prequel trilogy a little more (ony a little, mind.) Today whilst the parts of Star Wars I enjoy I really do enjoy, I think I prefer Tolkien's love letter to Anglo-Saxon/Norse myths and legends. However, I did find the Hobbit films...lacklustre. I was finding myself annoyed by the changes to the book (I personally find Bolg being the antagonist with an element of wanting vengeance for the death of his father more of an interesting tilt for a villain, I preferred how it was Gandalf that tricks the trolls via mimicry of their voices than it be Bilbo, and then there's the whole Barrel Rider scene...) and the weird attempt to balance a more light hearted (but to me morally grey) adventure to a serious world changing (good vs evil morality) epic so that it would feel more like the original films. Ugh...it could have been something great and it shines through at certain points... Oh and I have not and will not see Rings of Power, especially having read the book now. Wow...i've become less open in regards to book to film in my old age. Anyway, ramble over.
I kinda just "forgot" about the PJ Hobbit films (with the exception of one song and one line from the start of the first movie). So I obviously don't know about this "Hobbit Trilogy" you refer to... That aside Rings of Power weren't as bad as the intense shade thrown at it on social media, but they weren't great either. About as middle of the road compared to everything else released on screen. And while I understand and can accept the creation/recreation of certain characters, Rings of Power looks to have removed a few key characters defining plot points that has me worried if they can't shoehorn them into the second season somehow...maybe your are right to stay away until the entire show is out. Awesome, I hope Scarterra becomes a house name! I really need to finish up the ruleset I wrote up in college, and come maybe up with a better name than UniversalTabletopRuleset.
I suspect that everyone already knows which one I voted for. Looks like I'm joined by @Killer Angel and @Mrs. NIGHTBRINGER . Interesting note, @Mrs. NIGHTBRINGER does not like LOTR (a fact which I didn't know for about ten years).
Characters There are only a few LOTR characters that I feel truly invested in (Sam, Gimli, Gandalf). Don't get me wrong, the LOTR characters aren't bad, I just don't like them anywhere near to the level as I do the Star Wars characters. They don't come close to the likes of Darth Bane, Yoda, Darth Vader, Han, Darth Maul, Grand Admiral Thrawn, Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Luke, Leia, R2, etc. Star Wars characters are far more memorable in my opinion, and by a very large margin. Admittedly, Star Wars has more bad/annoying characters (Jar Jar, Ewoks, etc.), but the great characters more than make up for it. Emotional Payoff In Return of the Jedi we see Luke embrace the Dark Side and head down the path as his father had. He uses it to defeat his father. We see his father's severed hand, just as Vader had done to Luke a movie earlier. At the precipice of succumbing to the Dark Side, Luke turns back. "I am a Jedi, like my father before me." The emperor unleashes his power, Luke is outmatched and moments from dying. And it is Vader, the big scary villain from the trilogy that finally redeems himself and saves his son at the expense of his own life. The trilogy builds up so beautifully to this moment and it is such a satisfying emotional conclusion and character arc for both Luke and Anakin. On the flip side, Frodo, in his moment to be the hero, chooses to keep the ring. The ring is only destroyed by fluke in a scuffle between Frodo and Gollum. It all came down essentially to chance and good fortune. Frodo fails where Luke succeeds. The emotional payoff is cheap when compared to the OT's finale. Yes, we do get that cool scene with Aragorn, Merry and Pip leading the charge against the forces of Mordor, and that is an emotional payoff, but its not there for the true climax of the film and the character arc of our primary protagonist, Frodo. No active "big bad" in LOTR The OT has Darth Vader and the PT has Sidious. They play an active role and are a direct threat to our protagonists. We get to see them engage directly with our heroes. We see them eventually fall (Sidious) or redeem themselves (Vader). LOTR is badly lacking in this regard. Sauron, outside of the intro does not play an active role. It is his underlings that do all the work and he is a very passive "character". A big threat that never arrives. Saruman never has a worthy end in the films. He has a brief fight with Gandalf, but other than that is only active at-a-distance. The Witch-King of Angmar is ruined by that cheesy line and feels very much like Boba Fett in the OT, in that their pitiful end kind of ruins them as characters. Gothmog is trivial. Azog is boring (and part of a terrible trilogy). As a result, our LOTR heroes are almost exclusively fighting cannon fodder. Like cutting your way through a bunch of Chaos Marauders but never facing off against Hortennse. Gollum is a cool villain, but he isn't threatening enough to be considered a "big bad". I see your swords and I raise you lightsabers "This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight. Not as clumsy or random as a blaster; an elegant weapon for a more civilized age." Swords and sword fights are awesome, but their lightsaber equivalents are better. The visual look of them and their sound really adds to the experience. I just really like lightsabers! Not only do I like the OT better than LOTR, but the PT utterly destroys the Hobbit I might give the PT some grief (when @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl tries to put it above the OT), but I still love the films. I still watch and enjoy them. The Hobbit trilogy (not the book, which is pretty good) is terrible. It is agonizing to sit through. While it does have some good moments, overall it is bloated, inconsistent and weak. The Expanded Universe If we look outside of the main stories (OT + PT and LOTR + Hobbit), Star Wars comes out on top for me. LOTR has the Silmarillion, which I generally hear is not a fun read. The Expanded Universe may have its fair share of duds but it also has a treasure trove of gems. The Darth Bane trilogy and the Thrawn trilogy are both amazing. Both Bane and Thrawn make it into my top 10 Star Wars characters of all time, with Bane holding the top spot (even above all the movie characters). There is so much good stuff to read and explore. I haven't even had the chance to play KOTOR, which I heard is also an amazing story. It is rumoured to be re-mastered for the PS5, so I should get to it then (unless they make it woke). I guess that should do for now. Despite my criticisms of LOTR, I still absolutely love it. But if we're putting it up against my absolute favourite, it naturally falls (subjectively).
I can kindly direct you to about a thousand or so posts indicating otherwise. For subjecting us to that, we'll never let you live it down!
good analysis, with things i agree with and that i knew, but wasn't able to fully rationalize. My vote for SW is fully confirmed. This one was truly awful. Like Arya vs The Night King awful, aggravated by the fact that the killing was done by a lesser character. I'm also torn about the fight against the most "majestic" opponent (Gandalf vs Balrog), which ends offscreen... even if the actual ending on the bridge was one of the best moments in the first book.