• The forum software have been upgraded to the latest version.

    If you notice anything that looks off, or does not work, please let us know.

    For more information, click here.

The great battle is nearly upon us... ...and has concluded.

Killer Angel said:
That would go against your usual (AFAIK) results...
Click to expand...
That's true, but we're flipping the script this time. In past years I gave her a points advantage to help offset my superior army list, but to no avail. It was an absolute massacre in my favour. So instead of a points lead, why not give her the very thing that was her undoing in the past. She will field MY army with MY army list. But not just any army or any army list, but my very best Warriors of Chaos army list. My super optimized power list. My own, my precious.

I won't lie, it feels odd facing my beloved list. It's my baby. Every last point lovingly scrutinized, analyzed and carefully allocated. However, it should be fun little exercise and I can see how the list works from the opposite side of the battlefield. Maybe I can find a few holes in it to exploit. Plus, she is due a victory. Closest she has come was a draw she managed against my Tomb Kings the very first time I fielded them.

I've often thought to myself that I really couldn't think of a good counter list against my beloved WoC monster mash list and I still hold this to be true. Don't get me wrong, I can come up with a WoC counter to my WoC monster mash list, but my other three armies are much more problematic. Since I don't really like mirror matchups (WoC vs WoC would be kind of boring), I have to figure out a way to take on my super list with either my:
-Tomb Kings
-or Lizardmen
-or Chaos Dwarfs

I can straight up eliminate the Tomb Kings. No matter what I field they would be absolutely folded by my WoC list (barring severe intervention by the dice gods). The Tomb Kings are simply too weak, but not only that, the WoC are a terrible matchup in my opinion. DE and HE are arguably just as potent as the WoC, but the TK would at least fare better (though not great) against either of them.

So that leaves me with either my Lizardmen or my Chaos Dwarfs. Each have their pros and cons. While both are sub-WoC, they can at least threaten the WoC in certain phases of the game. The Slann can dominate the magic phase, while I brew up an Oldblood Cowboy to keep the Daemon Prince honest. Salamanders are a nice touch against the Trollstar. Although not optimal, I might be able to find some uses for Kroxigors. On the flip side, the Chaos Dwarfs would enjoy a huge shooting advantage (for as long as I can keep the WoC off them). Magma cannons are ideal against the trollstar, while Deathshriekers and hellcannons could take pot shots at the DP in an attempt to cut the head off the snake. I should be able to generate a slight magic phase advantage, but not to the degree that a Slann would.

Both armies suffer in terms of core tax when compared to the core trolls of the WoC; nothing can be done there. And both armies would be at a severe movement disadvantage against my super speedy WoC list. And we all know where the close combat advantage will lie.

If I go Lizardmen, then my Slann will definitely have Focus of Mystery. If I go Chaos Dwarfs, then I'll give up my usual lore of Hashut on my Sorcerer-Prophet for the lore of death (which I don't like playing, but I need the firepower).

Knowing me, I'll probably field my Chaos Dwarfs. Probably.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
That's true, but we're flipping the script this time. In past years I gave her a points advantage to help offset my superior army list, but to no avail. It was an absolute massacre in my favour. So instead of a points lead, why not give her the very thing that was her undoing in the past. She will field MY army with MY army list. But not just any army or any army list, but my very best Warriors of Chaos army list. My super optimized power list. My own, my precious.

I won't lie, it feels odd facing my beloved list. It's my baby. Every last point lovingly scrutinized, analyzed and carefully allocated. However, it should be fun little exercise and I can see how the list works from the opposite side of the battlefield. Maybe I can find a few holes in it to exploit. Plus, she is due a victory. Closest she has come was a draw she managed against my Tomb Kings the very first time I fielded them.

I've often thought to myself that I really couldn't think of a good counter list against my beloved WoC monster mash list and I still hold this to be true. Don't get me wrong, I can come up with a WoC counter to my WoC monster mash list, but my other three armies are much more problematic. Since I don't really like mirror matchups (WoC vs WoC would be kind of boring), I have to figure out a way to take on my super list with either my:
-Tomb Kings
-or Lizardmen
-or Chaos Dwarfs

I can straight up eliminate the Tomb Kings. No matter what I field they would be absolutely folded by my WoC list (barring severe intervention by the dice gods). The Tomb Kings are simply too weak, but not only that, the WoC are a terrible matchup in my opinion. DE and HE are arguably just as potent as the WoC, but the TK would at least fare better (though not great) against either of them.

So that leaves me with either my Lizardmen or my Chaos Dwarfs. Each have their pros and cons. While both are sub-WoC, they can at least threaten the WoC in certain phases of the game. The Slann can dominate the magic phase, while I brew up an Oldblood Cowboy to keep the Daemon Prince honest. Salamanders are a nice touch against the Trollstar. Although not optimal, I might be able to find some uses for Kroxigors. On the flip side, the Chaos Dwarfs would enjoy a huge shooting advantage (for as long as I can keep the WoC off them). Magma cannons are ideal against the trollstar, while Deathshriekers and hellcannons could take pot shots at the DP in an attempt to cut the head off the snake. I should be able to generate a slight magic phase advantage, but not to the degree that a Slann would.

Both armies suffer in terms of core tax when compared to the core trolls of the WoC; nothing can be done there. And both armies would be at a severe movement disadvantage against my super speedy WoC list. And we all know where the close combat advantage will lie.

If I go Lizardmen, then my Slann will definitely have Focus of Mystery. If I go Chaos Dwarfs, then I'll give up my usual lore of Hashut on my Sorcerer-Prophet for the lore of death (which I don't like playing, but I need the firepower).

Knowing me, I'll probably field my Chaos Dwarfs. Probably.
Click to expand...
In so many ways this is a conversation I have with myself when I want to field my Tomb Kings. In 6th and 7th edition they were so much fun but in 8th they were weak. So many cool ideas and models but weak. We use the "add 10% points" plan for them as so many armies were better written. I'd love to see the lovingly crafted WOC list as I never got to use my chaos in 8th. You know you want to field Chaos Dwarves, do it!
 
BrotherSutek said:
I'd love to see the lovingly crafted WOC list as I never got to use my chaos in 8th.
Click to expand...
1776922813672-5cb74b3f-792e-4d16-8882-96679bc235bf_1.jpg1776922813672-5cb74b3f-792e-4d16-8882-96679bc235bf_2.jpg1776922813672-5cb74b3f-792e-4d16-8882-96679bc235bf_3.jpg



I also have a second slightly tweaked version of the list. All the core elements are exactly the same as above, with a few minor points shifted here or there. The only major difference is the Exalted Hero BSB is switched up for the Hortennse variation:

1776923432773.png

More defensive (nearly unkillable), but can't join the Skullcrushers. The Hortennse build can further be tweaked for increased mobility at a slight durability cost by subbing out the Daemonic Mount for a Disc of Tzeentch.

That said, they are all essentially the same list and are played the same way.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
That's true, but we're flipping the script this time. In past years I gave her a points advantage to help offset my superior army list, but to no avail. It was an absolute massacre in my favour. So instead of a points lead, why not give her the very thing that was her undoing in the past. She will field MY army with MY army list. But not just any army or any army list, but my very best Warriors of Chaos army list. My super optimized power list. My own, my precious.

I won't lie, it feels odd facing my beloved list. It's my baby. Every last point lovingly scrutinized, analyzed and carefully allocated. However, it should be fun little exercise and I can see how the list works from the opposite side of the battlefield. Maybe I can find a few holes in it to exploit. Plus, she is due a victory. Closest she has come was a draw she managed against my Tomb Kings the very first time I fielded them.

I've often thought to myself that I really couldn't think of a good counter list against my beloved WoC monster mash list and I still hold this to be true. Don't get me wrong, I can come up with a WoC counter to my WoC monster mash list, but my other three armies are much more problematic. Since I don't really like mirror matchups (WoC vs WoC would be kind of boring), I have to figure out a way to take on my super list with either my:
-Tomb Kings
-or Lizardmen
-or Chaos Dwarfs

I can straight up eliminate the Tomb Kings. No matter what I field they would be absolutely folded by my WoC list (barring severe intervention by the dice gods). The Tomb Kings are simply too weak, but not only that, the WoC are a terrible matchup in my opinion. DE and HE are arguably just as potent as the WoC, but the TK would at least fare better (though not great) against either of them.

So that leaves me with either my Lizardmen or my Chaos Dwarfs. Each have their pros and cons. While both are sub-WoC, they can at least threaten the WoC in certain phases of the game. The Slann can dominate the magic phase, while I brew up an Oldblood Cowboy to keep the Daemon Prince honest. Salamanders are a nice touch against the Trollstar. Although not optimal, I might be able to find some uses for Kroxigors. On the flip side, the Chaos Dwarfs would enjoy a huge shooting advantage (for as long as I can keep the WoC off them). Magma cannons are ideal against the trollstar, while Deathshriekers and hellcannons could take pot shots at the DP in an attempt to cut the head off the snake. I should be able to generate a slight magic phase advantage, but not to the degree that a Slann would.

Both armies suffer in terms of core tax when compared to the core trolls of the WoC; nothing can be done there. And both armies would be at a severe movement disadvantage against my super speedy WoC list. And we all know where the close combat advantage will lie.

If I go Lizardmen, then my Slann will definitely have Focus of Mystery. If I go Chaos Dwarfs, then I'll give up my usual lore of Hashut on my Sorcerer-Prophet for the lore of death (which I don't like playing, but I need the firepower).

Knowing me, I'll probably field my Chaos Dwarfs. Probably.
Click to expand...


that sounds super interesting!
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
View attachment 173565View attachment 173566View attachment 173567



I also have a second slightly tweaked version of the list. All the core elements are exactly the same as above, with a few minor points shifted here or there. The only major difference is the Exalted Hero BSB is switched up for the Hortennse variation:

View attachment 173568

More defensive (nearly unkillable), but can't join the Skullcrushers. The Hortennse build can further be tweaked for increased mobility at a slight durability cost by subbing out the Daemonic Mount for a Disc of Tzeentch.

That said, they are all essentially the same list and are played the same way.
Click to expand...
Yeah that would eat Tomb Kings with little effort. I like the Tzeentch build as the BSB is so valuable in 8th. Really neat and strong build. Other than my Empire or Wood Elves I'd have to build better, more competitive, lists to beat it.
 
BrotherSutek said:
Yeah that would eat Tomb Kings with little effort. I like the Tzeentch build as the BSB is so valuable in 8th. Really neat and strong build. Other than my Empire or Wood Elves I'd have to build better, more competitive, lists to beat it.
Click to expand...
Outside of the chaff war hounds, everything in the list is super dangerous:
➜Daemon Prince
➜Trollstar
➜Skullcrushers
➜Pair of Chimera

Each of those elements is a top tier fighter. But what makes the list truly shine is how fast it is. The slowest thing in the list are the M6 Trolls. Everything else is M7 or better, including the flying circus of a DP and two Chimera. On top of that the lore of Slaanesh has two spells which completely mess up your opponent's movement. So overall, the list will outmaneuver just about any opposition and can converge on the enemy units in no time.

Outside of the Chimera and the warhounds, nothing in the army will ever panic, and units most in need of a leadership boost enjoy not one but two leadership bubbles (DP and Throgg).

On the weak side, despite being pound for pound one of the very best units in the game, sometimes the trolls will troll (fail their stupidity test), are weak to flaming attacks and initiative based spells. The Skullcrushers on the other hand have to deal with their frenzy. The Chimera have poor leadership, so the player must always ensure they are within one of the two leadership bubbles.
 
Here is a potential Lizardmen list. A bit out there.

1777006623010.png1777006666037.png


Heavily reliant on characters. It's the march of the Cowboys. Thinking on it, I would probably drop a Kroxigor to put the Razor Standard on the Temple Guard. The trollstar remains a problem, but the other WoC units must at the very least be a bit cautious. It's a shame that the Saurus Warriors can't take a magic standard... or even a unit Cold One Riders. It would have been nice to get a Banner of Eternal Flame in there. Unfortunately, it's too risky to put it on the Temple Guard because it allows the DP to single handedly solo the entire unit with zero apprehension.
 
I like both lists but have to agree the banner of Flame while needed would neef the unit if the DP charged them. And anyone who knows what they are doing would charge them with the DP. I love the idea of three cowboys! I never to play against 8th edition CDs so don't know how good things are other than the destroyers were really good.
 
BrotherSutek said:
I like both lists but have to agree the banner of Flame while needed would neef the unit if the DP charged them. And anyone who knows what they are doing would charge them with the DP.
Click to expand...
The Banner of Eternal Flame also makes the Exalted Hero immune to the unit that is carrying it. That was rationale when designing the WoC list. Knowing that the Trolls and Chimera would incentivize the opponent to field the Banner of Eternal Flame, the list features two elements that counter such an inclusion.

BrotherSutek said:
I love the idea of three cowboys!
Click to expand...
Those boys can take on just about anyone. Especially when backed up by a Slann that will swap into the Lore of Life and thus heal up the few wounds that manage to get by. They offer great flexibility.

BrotherSutek said:
I never to play against 8th edition CDs so don't know how good things are other than the destroyers were really good.
Click to expand...
Destroyers are arguably the most destructive close combat pieces outside of characters. Against this list though, there are counters. The DP will crush it and the skullcrushers come out about even point for point.

This list will hinge on the performance of the warmachines. The magma cannon has to help whittle down the Trollstar before they arrive. The hellcannon and the deathshrieker are a high risk, high reward potential counter to the DP.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
The Banner of Eternal Flame also makes the Exalted Hero immune to the unit that is carrying it. That was rationale when designing the WoC list. Knowing that the Trolls and Chimera would incentivize the opponent to field the Banner of Eternal Flame, the list features two elements that counter such an inclusion.


Those boys can take on just about anyone. Especially when backed up by a Slann that will swap into the Lore of Life and thus heal up the few wounds that manage to get by. They offer great flexibility.


Destroyers are arguably the most destructive close combat pieces outside of characters. Against this list though, there are counters. The DP will crush it and the skullcrushers come out about even point for point.

This list will hinge on the performance of the warmachines. The magma cannon has to help whittle down the Trollstar before they arrive. The hellcannon and the deathshrieker are a high risk, high reward potential counter to the DP.
Click to expand...
My Wood Elves would concentrate on killing the ranged units and then run around like madmen so they don't all die. Unlike 7th or 6th edition in 8th I absolutely take a Mage and they will have some serious heavy lifting to counter this army. I will definitely agree this WOC list is sweet!
 
BrotherSutek said:
My Wood Elves would concentrate on killing the ranged units and then run around like madmen so they don't all die.
Click to expand...
Against that Chaos Dwarfs list, it's a good strategy. The Wood Elves have the tools to easily remove the Deathshrieker Rocket Launcher and the Magma Cannon fairly early in the game. The Hellcannon will be much harder to remove, but there is only one hellcannon in the list, so there is only so much damage it can too.

In terms of avoidance, the Infernal Guard block is dead in the water at only M3. The only real fast elements in the army are the Bull Centaur Renders (M7, swiftstride), Bull Centaur Taur'ruk (M7, swiftstride), the K'daai Destroyer (M9) and the Sorcerer-Prophet on Bale Taurus (fly). So it will come down to a game of cat and mouse.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top