Wow, they really are gutting hordes and making it all about monsters and elite troops now. Even if you do allocate your reinforcement points to getting 30 melee troops you can't use them effectively in combat due to the new coherency rules. What the hell even is this version going for? Are they just trying to push people to buy their big centerpiece models and expensive elite units? So much for the "best ruleset ever" baloney... *Edit* Not that I mind dinosaurs being a better choice than Skink hordes, but I never wanted them to essentially remove large units from the freaking game! Also, core battalions suck. Every ability is a once per battle bonus that you normally get with CP and getting a one-drop deployment is an entire battalion bonus?
My first thought on the core battalions is there is zero reason for them to not actually have used words.
Don't be so doom and gloom man, hard to see the forest when we're just getting pictures of the leaves. The game will be different, but i wouldn't start making any drastic definitive statements.
I love monsters, and Thunder Lizards has been my favorite list since the new battletome came out. But I still hate what they're doing to melee infantry and non-monster units in general. The buffs to monsters are a needed addition, absolutely gutting most battleline, and literally nerfing melee battleline to the ground, was 1000% *NOT* needed. Of course it's GW and they want to make money, but clearly the new edition is based on forcing everyone to drop the horde lists they were running before and start buying all the big, expensive monsters and elite units like Kroxigors or Varanguard that can function in MSU but cost $50-$100 for a unit of 5 or 6... So just to clarify, here's all the hits that melee-based infantry and cavalry units are taking right now: 1: Coherency rules mean you can't deploy in a line, you must go double-ranked at the minimum. So even with MSU you will have a hard time screening effectively. 2: Coherency rules also mean you can't wrap enemy units anymore. This is going to kill their damage output, making them even less worth taking. If you don't have a 2" weapon range, you're SOL. 3: Reinforcement rules mean that most basic battleline units that come in MSU of 10 but can go up to 40 can now only go up to 30, and it's only possible to have a maximum of 2 units at that size because you have a max of 4 RP and it costs 1 RP for each increment of 10. Skaven, Gitz, and any other faction with battleline that starts at MSU 20 can still go up to 60 for 2 RP. So they can still field double the amount of infantry that most anyone else can, but factions like Seraphon, Khorne, Nurgle, DOK, STD or anyone else with good, cheap infantry who sometimes liked to field 80-120 of them can no longer do so at all. Again, most factions are MAXED at 2 "hordes" of 30 where they used to be able to take as many as they had points for. TL,DR: GW doesn't want you running hordes anymore. You can't bring many and they are much less effective in combat. Shooting hasn't really gotten nerfed at all, other than also being subjected to the unit size limit. But unlike melee, there are actually buffs to shooting in 3e in the form of the overwatch CA and IMO, the smaller board size benefits shooting just as much if not more than melee because now it's even easier to have your targets in range. I really was determined to be optimistic about 3e, especially with the early leaks. But the more stuff that comes out, the less I like it.
It just really hurts my soul to see Saurus get hit so hard by these rule changes. Warriors capped at 30, with no Sunclaw, with no movement flexibility, trying to make that work with the same awful Ordered Cohort rule that they need to function on the most basic level Knights with no ability to function above groups of 5 Carnosaurs with no Sunclaw, again And by comparison skinks came out not much worse. Maybe even better in some scenarios since they can theoretically Parting Shot and Unleash Hell. The part of our faction that everybody hates our guts for using just widened the gap between itself and our other, more mediocre, stuff
at this point i think so much has changed that it is no longer useful to make comparisons. 3rd is going to be a completely different game. as always what we loos will hurt especially with no real chance to use it. but we will solder on and hope that our next book when ever it comes out is actually made with 3rd in mind
Where have they confirmed that book battalions are going away in matched play? I haven't seen a single source on these claims.
mainly the fact that now battalions don't work anything like the battalions we are used to. they work like 40k detachments which was half the rumor
Atop the picture of battalions it mentions the battlepack either allowing or disallowing Core Battalions. I'm figuring that book battalions are not considered Core, and most battlepacks will allow Core. Narrative Battlepacks will allow Book/Faction battalions.
no idea. a few possibilities would be a ability like units of renown from WFB or the build it yourself subfaction abilities from 40k
Well these effects are garbage with the exception of linebreaker depending on what "enhancements" are (I'm assuming it's artifacts/traits/etc). Everything else is a one-time use of a minor ability. Sure, it's going to make or break a game every so often, but it isn't exactly exciting or very interesting. Couldn't they at least put in some vaguely interesting effects? Stuff like "this core battalion can be set up in reserve" at least? Have faction battalions actually been completly removed? I thought the core battalions were supposed to be in addition to. To allow some more builds without taxing it too heavily. With respect to the reïnforcements points; Are they at least changing how horde bonusses & buffs work? Or possibly what a MSU of some of the units is? Because while some units are still going to be usefull in MSU and being forced to go from 1x40 to 4x10 isn't going to be the end for them, that doesn't work for everything. Stuff like skinks or saurus warriors simply need to be a bigger unit for them to be anything other than cannonfodder. I mean, they've clearly realized this to some extend. Just look at the new warscrolls for zombies & skeletons, they no longer have horde bonusses and don't need to be fielded in large blocks to be relevant. And similarly the new Slaanesh mortals as well as basicly all lumineth stuff were also already encouraging smaller units. But there's still plenty of units left that rely on horde bonusses.
general rumor is they are going narrative but no confirmation yet. we don't know but until they do the few armies that stil have them are going to have a hard time. my guess is this is intentional. instead of making eliets strong enough to matter they are trying to hamstring hordes to bring them in check.
I mean sure, but what are factions like ours supposed to do in the mean-time? We don't exactly have a lot of elite options, and even our "elite" options we tend to take in max sizes if we can afford it, especially if we want to use them as a credible threat. ah well.. hopefully they'l show how this is supposed to work for some of the horde factions soon. Cuz right now it is starting to feel like we got an entire edition that's been designed around the Lumineth & Slaanesh updates.
suck it up and take it like a man...lizard. makes sense they are the newest books and actually made with 3rd in mind
Negative reaction: to be fair, I'm sick and tired of the whole GW attitude "well, this army / codex sucks hard because the game has changed and now we are pushing new armies while you had to wait". In 40k there are armies that were already struggling with 8th, now with 9th a good half of their rules simply makes no sense, and you need to wait GW's gracious concessions, standing in a corner with your nearly unplayable army. The same reasoning applies to AoS... hopefully now SCE will come back as something different than "elite army with slow and costly punching bag that just melts in front of the current MW's rain". And while our codex is still strong, there's a difference between "dealing MS on 6s to wound within 18" thanks to support hero and hordes (that are going to disappear)", vs "rain of MW on 5s to hit without even seeing you within 30"" realistic reaction. warhammer has ALWAYS been like this. Currently AoS is just setting these changes at a higher pace (for both the good and the bad this involves)
If saurus get hit so hard, WE can still take saurus knights in koatl claw. In groups of 10 that costs only 1 reinforcement Point so you can easily field 2 groups of 10 and buff them up with starpriest and cp. Mix in a little support ( magic/shooting) Pick a Dread and tadala, you got a List
The one thing that unites all AoS/40k players, regardless of background, nationality etc. is the assumption that everything GW does is a deliberate ploy to get more money and screw over players who have been building armies with older rules sets (I saw this with my tongue planted firmly in the cheek). We're only seeing a tiny fraction of a small segment of rules, so I'm holding off on any judgement. Obviously later codices will be more suited to 3.0, that's how it works. GW can't revamp every faction simultaneously so I'm sure we'll get errata, or something equivalent, as soon as is possible.