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AoS NEW *rumor*

Discussion in 'Seraphon Discussion' started by Logan8054, Jan 28, 2019.

  1. Putzfrau
    Skink Chief

    Putzfrau Well-Known Member

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    Don't be so doom and gloom man, hard to see the forest when we're just getting pictures of the leaves.

    The game will be different, but i wouldn't start making any drastic definitive statements.
     
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  2. Dread Saurian
    Terradon

    Dread Saurian Well-Known Member

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    I have been waiting for this moment for a long time and I'm stoked for monster mash lists
     
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  3. Kilvakar
    Troglodon

    Kilvakar Well-Known Member

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    I love monsters, and Thunder Lizards has been my favorite list since the new battletome came out. But I still hate what they're doing to melee infantry and non-monster units in general. The buffs to monsters are a needed addition, absolutely gutting most battleline, and literally nerfing melee battleline to the ground, was 1000% *NOT* needed.

    Of course it's GW and they want to make money, but clearly the new edition is based on forcing everyone to drop the horde lists they were running before and start buying all the big, expensive monsters and elite units like Kroxigors or Varanguard that can function in MSU but cost $50-$100 for a unit of 5 or 6...

    So just to clarify, here's all the hits that melee-based infantry and cavalry units are taking right now:

    1: Coherency rules mean you can't deploy in a line, you must go double-ranked at the minimum. So even with MSU you will have a hard time screening effectively.

    2: Coherency rules also mean you can't wrap enemy units anymore. This is going to kill their damage output, making them even less worth taking. If you don't have a 2" weapon range, you're SOL.

    3: Reinforcement rules mean that most basic battleline units that come in MSU of 10 but can go up to 40 can now only go up to 30, and it's only possible to have a maximum of 2 units at that size because you have a max of 4 RP and it costs 1 RP for each increment of 10. Skaven, Gitz, and any other faction with battleline that starts at MSU 20 can still go up to 60 for 2 RP. So they can still field double the amount of infantry that most anyone else can, but factions like Seraphon, Khorne, Nurgle, DOK, STD or anyone else with good, cheap infantry who sometimes liked to field 80-120 of them can no longer do so at all. Again, most factions are MAXED at 2 "hordes" of 30 where they used to be able to take as many as they had points for.

    TL,DR: GW doesn't want you running hordes anymore. You can't bring many and they are much less effective in combat.

    Shooting hasn't really gotten nerfed at all, other than also being subjected to the unit size limit. But unlike melee, there are actually buffs to shooting in 3e in the form of the overwatch CA and IMO, the smaller board size benefits shooting just as much if not more than melee because now it's even easier to have your targets in range.

    I really was determined to be optimistic about 3e, especially with the early leaks. But the more stuff that comes out, the less I like it.
     
  4. ArtoriusaurusRex
    Cold One

    ArtoriusaurusRex Well-Known Member

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    It just really hurts my soul to see Saurus get hit so hard by these rule changes.

    Warriors capped at 30, with no Sunclaw, with no movement flexibility, trying to make that work with the same awful Ordered Cohort rule that they need to function on the most basic level

    Knights with no ability to function above groups of 5

    Carnosaurs with no Sunclaw, again


    And by comparison skinks came out not much worse. Maybe even better in some scenarios since they can theoretically Parting Shot and Unleash Hell.

    The part of our faction that everybody hates our guts for using just widened the gap between itself and our other, more mediocre, stuff
     
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  5. Erta Wanderer
    Skink Priest

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    at this point i think so much has changed that it is no longer useful to make comparisons. 3rd is going to be a completely different game. as always what we loos will hurt especially with no real chance to use it. but we will solder on and hope that our next book when ever it comes out is actually made with 3rd in mind
     
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  6. sigmonstar
    Saurus

    sigmonstar Active Member

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    Where have they confirmed that book battalions are going away in matched play? I haven't seen a single source on these claims.
     
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  7. Erta Wanderer
    Skink Priest

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    mainly the fact that now battalions don't work anything like the battalions we are used to. they work like 40k detachments which was half the rumor
     
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  8. Carnikang
    Carnasaur

    Carnikang Well-Known Member

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    Atop the picture of battalions it mentions the battlepack either allowing or disallowing Core Battalions. I'm figuring that book battalions are not considered Core, and most battlepacks will allow Core. Narrative Battlepacks will allow Book/Faction battalions.
     
  9. ninjakeso
    Skink

    ninjakeso Member

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    Anyone got any idea what "enhancements" is? See battalion ability magnificent.
     
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  10. Erta Wanderer
    Skink Priest

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    no idea. a few possibilities would be a ability like units of renown from WFB or the build it yourself subfaction abilities from 40k
     
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  11. Canas
    Slann

    Canas Ninth Spawning

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    Well these effects are garbage with the exception of linebreaker depending on what "enhancements" are (I'm assuming it's artifacts/traits/etc). Everything else is a one-time use of a minor ability. Sure, it's going to make or break a game every so often, but it isn't exactly exciting or very interesting. Couldn't they at least put in some vaguely interesting effects? Stuff like "this core battalion can be set up in reserve" at least?

    Have faction battalions actually been completly removed? I thought the core battalions were supposed to be in addition to. To allow some more builds without taxing it too heavily.

    With respect to the reïnforcements points; Are they at least changing how horde bonusses & buffs work? Or possibly what a MSU of some of the units is?

    Because while some units are still going to be usefull in MSU and being forced to go from 1x40 to 4x10 isn't going to be the end for them, that doesn't work for everything. Stuff like skinks or saurus warriors simply need to be a bigger unit for them to be anything other than cannonfodder.

    I mean, they've clearly realized this to some extend. Just look at the new warscrolls for zombies & skeletons, they no longer have horde bonusses and don't need to be fielded in large blocks to be relevant. And similarly the new Slaanesh mortals as well as basicly all lumineth stuff were also already encouraging smaller units. But there's still plenty of units left that rely on horde bonusses.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2021 at 8:21 AM
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  12. Erta Wanderer
    Skink Priest

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    general rumor is they are going narrative but no confirmation yet.

    we don't know but until they do the few armies that stil have them are going to have a hard time.

    my guess is this is intentional. instead of making eliets strong enough to matter they are trying to hamstring hordes to bring them in check.
     
  13. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    that was my thought as well
     
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  14. Canas
    Slann

    Canas Ninth Spawning

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    I mean sure, but what are factions like ours supposed to do in the mean-time? We don't exactly have a lot of elite options, and even our "elite" options we tend to take in max sizes if we can afford it, especially if we want to use them as a credible threat.

    ah well.. hopefully they'l show how this is supposed to work for some of the horde factions soon. Cuz right now it is starting to feel like we got an entire edition that's been designed around the Lumineth & Slaanesh updates.
     
  15. Erta Wanderer
    Skink Priest

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    suck it up and take it like a man...lizard.

    makes sense they are the newest books and actually made with 3rd in mind
     
  16. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    Negative reaction:
    to be fair, I'm sick and tired of the whole GW attitude "well, this army / codex sucks hard because the game has changed and now we are pushing new armies while you had to wait".
    In 40k there are armies that were already struggling with 8th, now with 9th a good half of their rules simply makes no sense, and you need to wait GW's gracious concessions, standing in a corner with your nearly unplayable army.
    The same reasoning applies to AoS... hopefully now SCE will come back as something different than "elite army with slow and costly punching bag that just melts in front of the current MW's rain". And while our codex is still strong, there's a difference between "dealing MS on 6s to wound within 18" thanks to support hero and hordes (that are going to disappear)", vs "rain of MW on 5s to hit without even seeing you within 30""

    realistic reaction.
    warhammer has ALWAYS been like this.
    Currently AoS is just setting these changes at a higher pace (for both the good and the bad this involves)
     
  17. Vexcor
    Kroxigor

    Vexcor Well-Known Member

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    If saurus get hit so hard, WE can still take saurus knights in koatl claw. In groups of 10 that costs only 1 reinforcement Point so you can easily field 2 groups of 10 and buff them up with starpriest and cp. Mix in a little support ( magic/shooting) Pick a Dread and tadala, you got a List o_O
     
  18. Jack Edwards-Fox
    Skink

    Jack Edwards-Fox Member

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    The one thing that unites all AoS/40k players, regardless of background, nationality etc. is the assumption that everything GW does is a deliberate ploy to get more money and screw over players who have been building armies with older rules sets (I saw this with my tongue planted firmly in the cheek).

    We're only seeing a tiny fraction of a small segment of rules, so I'm holding off on any judgement. Obviously later codices will be more suited to 3.0, that's how it works. GW can't revamp every faction simultaneously so I'm sure we'll get errata, or something equivalent, as soon as is possible.
     
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  19. Nart
    Carnasaur

    Nart Well-Known Member

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    Do you have a minute to talk about Dual Shooting Solar Engine Bastiladon, our Lord and Saviour?
     
  20. Nart
    Carnasaur

    Nart Well-Known Member

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    And only half of them will be able to hit at a time thanks to new coherency. Maybe like 8 out of 10, if you use Cat Paw fomration, but it looks stupid, tbh.

    But in reality GW is simply incompetent and don't understand how their own game works.
     
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