Discussion Questions about the mysterious Old Ones.

Discussion in 'Fluff and Stories' started by - Q -, Jul 10, 2024.

  1. J.Logan
    Razordon

    J.Logan Well-Known Member

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    So, the impression I get is that GeeDubs tried to distance themselves somewhat from the overtly Tolkien influence, even with the grim shading that they'd put on the imagery. Note that elves, dwarves and orcs are more widespread fantasy,: so they remained in the spotlight with a new spin to them, whereas halflings are more associated with Tolkien and Dungeons and Dragons (which never denied it Tolkien influence).

    40k dwarfs. Imperium accepted human subtype who are industrious. And technically still around, under a rebranding. Can't recall the name of the new Imperium dwarfs, but they are... I'm pretty sure the Mechanicus have thoughts about them and their tech.*cough*cloning and artificial intelligence*cough*
     
  2. - Q -
    Slann

    - Q - Well-Known Member

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    So a smaller version of Ogres of the Ogre Kingdoms?

    That's true. I've found next to nothing about them on my Warhammer journey. It's probably something that you have to purposefully seek out.
     
  3. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    [​IMG]
     
  4. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
    Slann

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Eleventh Spawning

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    On the contrary, in Fantasy lore Halflings have been confirmed to be pretty much the same - extreme gluttons that steal, eat, drink and have sex indiscriminately. A suitable injection of grimdark upon Tolkien's more utopian source material. In the Fantasy world they get mashed by a random Orc Waaagh! every so often which is why they officially remain loyal to the Empire's protection.

    Rather than being ignored, it's simply that most of their lore comes from Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, where they play quite a lot more of a part, than standard Warhammer Fantasy.

    A summary of it all can be read here: https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Halfling

    Pretty much... as has already been mentioned here it is often believed that the two races were created together in the Old Ones' attempts to try and create a race resistant to Chaos that could still wield magic (unlike Dwarfs). In the case of Halflings this seems to have succeeded, but of course the race is especially physically weak and uninterested in and incapable at warfare, while in the case of the Ogres it failed to a degree (as Ogres that serve Chaos forces often end up mutated, and retain the gluttony of the Halflings as well as being as violent and crude as Orcs).
     
  5. - Q -
    Slann

    - Q - Well-Known Member

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    They also have a blood bowl team!
    [​IMG]
     
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  6. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Dwarfs are resistant to Chaos (but not immune), however only the blessings of Chaos/Hashut allows them to wield magic (though not without consequences!).

    Curious, in lore, how tall are Halflings in comparison to Dwarfs?
     
  7. pyro-dragon
    Chameleon Skink

    pyro-dragon Active Member

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    A dwarf could absolutely deck a halfling I think
     
  8. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    I don't doubt it, I'm curious about their physical height relative to one another.
     
  9. J.Logan
    Razordon

    J.Logan Well-Known Member

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    I think... Maybe a head shorter at most, but even if they are of height with a Dawi, their statures make them look smaller. Dawi are built like brickhouses, which gives them a presence that gives a perception of extra height, compared to a halfling, who is built like a Potbellied hungry man.
     
  10. CaniusLanium
    Skink

    CaniusLanium New Member

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    I don't think that's contradictory at all. That just meant there might have been 100 planets where they were based and now there are only a handful of planets left.
    Regardless you can still conjure up a few units of Ratling Snipers in a 40K game by either saying they were already attached to the current regiment or they recruited like 1000 of them recently, out of a planet's population of millions?

    Haflings don't get much screentime in Battles, because, well, they are basically Goblins to the Empire, and the Empire has really not much of a niche for it.
    But they are featured prominently in Roleplay, as they make for great thieves. Depending on the viewpoint, Halflings are consider kleptomaniacs by most and prosecuted on-and-off outside of the Moot because of it, but it's really because they have a very weak concept of private property. The lore reason (which is probably in 2nd Sigmar's Heirs but most likely been expanded in Cubicle 7's 4th edition books, can remember) is that, due to the very close kinships of the Halflings -- essentially, everyone is everyone else's cousin's cousin's cousin -- that properties within their hearth are seen as shared. The foodies therefore have no inhibition outside of their land to take what's others.

    The Halflings are somewhat hobbit-like, in so far as the "simple folks of the idylic countryside" is concerned. Though they are depicted to be more ugly in many editions -- closer to village idiots in many instances. It's rare in Roleplay to find a Halfling that's objectively evil, however -- I don't think there's even a priest of Ranald (which is basically just a thief) that's a halfling in all 4 editions!

    The one instance that shows some objectively sinister shit going on in the Moot is from Sigmar's Heirs, on page 61 where a Halfling named Dagobert brought back some sort of fertility deity back from his travels in Kislev, with which he had turned his entire village (Gipfel) to its worship. The diety demands blood sacrifice, and the halflings often kidnap travellers for this purpose.

    Other than that, it's mostly inter-family struggles, for land, for some kind of ancestral rights.

    Nothing is immune to Chaos. In Battles, the Elves are marred by Chaos, just that their corruption is spiritual (8th edition, P7), and bar the Chaos Dwarfs, there was also a Slaaneshi Dwarf cult in Karak Azgal post Storm of Chaos in 2nd edition WFRP (Karak Agzal, p93).
    The Halflings, as previously stated, are not immune to evil, but as for how resistent they are, I cannot say. Overall, I recall from somewhere they are just too simple to draw the Chaos Gods' gaze. They are notably immune to the influence of the Warpstone.

    Unlike Dwarfs, Halflings are naturally intuned to magic, although most are petty magics and related to hearth and field. I get the impression they are about as magically inclined as normal humans.

    In the 6-8 edition Battles, it was said that Halflings and Ogres were created near the end of the Old One's reign for some unknown purposes.

    I can't recall where but some in-universe scholar suggested that Ogres were resistant in flesh while the Halflings in spirit (Chaos is a spiritual corruption, after all), and the strength of the Ogres and the cunning of the Halflings were meant to compliment each other. I can't help but see a sort of mirror to the Skink-Kroxigor relationship of the Lizardmen in this. The Dwarfs were too stubborn, and the Elves too easily swayed due to how heightened their senses are, and the Ogre-Halflings were probably an attempt to create a sort of comprise between the two by giving them simpler minds.

    The Gnomes, on the other hand...
     
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  11. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Settra would disagree. Settra does not serve, Settra rules!

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. pyro-dragon
    Chameleon Skink

    pyro-dragon Active Member

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    Have there ever been chaos corrupted slann/lizardmen armies?
     
  13. CaniusLanium
    Skink

    CaniusLanium New Member

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    Lord Zhul had been corrupted by a Daemon Prince, however, mighty was his power, the Slann Mage Priest managed to sporadically regain control of his body, resulting in him giving erratic and contradictory orders to his servants. Lord Zhul's story was first canonized, to my knowledge, in 5th edition, and was updated in 7th and 8th edition Lizardmen army books.
    In all editions, a Skink Chief named Quzipantuti was sent to the nearby temple-city of Tlenchen to investiage, whereupon they encountered a wounded Daemon Prince of unknown allegiance with an elven blade in its abodoment. The Daemon had been tapping into the Geomantic web for who-knows-how-long and was able to overpower Lord Zhuul's mind when his palaquin was faced to the city of Tlenchen at the zenith of each month. The Daemon summoned lesser Daemons to his defense and the battle -- depending on the edition -- was either a one-sided victory or a near-defeat, both thanks to Sotek's apparent manifestation.
    Lord Zhuul croaked his last the moment the Daemon Prince was banished -- so fierce was the battle of will that he had expanded all his might. According to 8th edition, Lord Zhuul's demise occured in 912 IC, and the city of Xahutec was "abandoned for the final time" shortly afterwards (p26)

    Besides that, there's just on other from all of WHFB and WFRP that I know of -- in 1st edition roleplay, it is said that after the first Chaos Incursion, the regressed Slanns (which at this time, are not the same as the Lizardmen, but direct descendants of the Old-Slanns) took to worshipping Warp entities (keep in mind they weren't all malignant -- some, as I had posted earlier in this thread, possibly became the gods of the Elves, Dwarfs, and other intelligent species, such as Asuryan, Phar, Ulric, etc.)

    The Slanns remained resiliant to the allure of Chaos (unlike the Elves, whose minds were tainted despite their genetic-coding; or the Dwarfs, whose temperment had been altered in unforseen ways -- may refer to them being gold-sick and grudge-holding; and worse of all, MEN). Nevertheless, there is this one sentence: only rarely would the Slann take to the worship of Chaos Gods, while the physical mutations that afflicted the other races affected them but little. (p264)

    And this paragraph shortly afterwards
    Today the Slann find their lands invaded by all manner of Humans from the eastern continent - adventurers from the Old World and the ruthless Norse. Spurred by these events, the decline of the Slann advances apace, and many have taken to the secret worship of the Dark Gods.
     
  14. - Q -
    Slann

    - Q - Well-Known Member

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    While not immune, Lizardmen have to be one of the most resistant races to the influence of Chaos.
     
  15. pyro-dragon
    Chameleon Skink

    pyro-dragon Active Member

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    While I don't like the idea of the wonderful lizards falling to chaos, I do kind of think some chaos corrupted skinks and saurus would look cool as heck
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2024 at 1:17 AM
  16. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    There is no escape from Chaos. It marks us all.
     
  17. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    If you're not Settra, or some very specific small group in 40k.
     
  18. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    That's true, Settra is the exception. I'd guess Necrons would be immune in 40k.
     
  19. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    Necrons, Custodes, Grey knights, if I recall also sisters of silence and Nids.
    Custodes and GK merely due to inner strenght, but theoretically they could be corrupted, and a case could be made for SoS.
     

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