8th Ed. 1000 Points, Lizardmen Versus High Elves [Update, 2/21/2011]

[ShasOFish]

Most recent report/update is at the bottom.

As referenced in the topic I posted under Army Lists (http://www.lustria-online.com/threads/1000-point-adepticon-list.6008/), I tested out my Adepticon list against my brother a few days past. I was hoping to test out something new, perhaps figure out the best way to go about supporting my ally for that team tournament (Bretonnians). Knowing that Knights are expensive and few in number, I went about making the horde of skinks that would provide enough bodies on the field to help augment the forces he had.

This was the origin of the list from the Army List thread, and so is slightly different:

Heroes

• Skink Priest (General)
  Level 2, Plaque of Tepok
• Skink Chief
  Battle Standard, Light Armor, Shield, Blowpipe, Burning Blade of Chotec

Core

• Skink Skirmishers
  14 Skinks, Javelins & Shields
  
• Skink Skirmishers
  13 Skinks, Javelins & Shields
  
• Skink Cohort
  24 Skinks, Full Command

Special

• Stegadon
  Giant Bow
  
• Chameleon Skinks
  5 Chameleons
  
• Chameleon Skinks
  5 Chameleons

Rare

• Salamander Hunting Pack
  Extra Handler

Total Cost:

• Under 1000 points

(Note: This particular list has been erased twice over; I'm working off of memory for this and the game itself, though the latter was far more memorable.)

In my brother's care:
Heroes

• Mage
  Level 2

Core

• Sea Guard
  24 Sea Guard (approximately), Full Command

Special

• Phoenix Guard
  10 Guard (Looks like I overestimated them in the other thread; it explains why I went through them so quickly!), Full Command (Probably)
• Swordmasters of Hoeth
  16 Swordmasters, Full Command

Rare

• Repeater Bolt Thrower

Total Cost:

• 1000 points

The table was set up with about a dozen small pieces of cover (none averaging over 4 inches in diameter), with a house on one half and large forest on the other. The table was split up diagonal across the middle, with a 24" buffer between the two starting zones. This allowed for us to have enough room to flank each other (in theory), while still allowing enough of a backfield in the case of us wanting to start out of archery range (I was also under the assumption that he'd take more units to the field).

Setting up, he placed his forces right at, or close to, the starting edge, gunning for the closest unit I deployed (the larger of the skirmisher units), with his bolt thrower hanging back in a tree clump. I placed my regiment of Skinks (with the Chief) behind the first unit of skirmishers (with the Priest), with the second deployed angled against his forces, with the salamander deployed in the notch formed by the missing skink in the rear rank (rank of seven, with a rank of six behind). The stegadon was deployed on the far flank in a cusp of trees, and the chameleons scouted behind his bolt in further cusps of trees, ready to strike when it was their turn.

Rolled spells proved beneficial; rolling a 4, 5, and 6 (Urannon's Thunderbolt, Comet of Cassandora, and Chain Lightning) on the Heavens table, I had all the firepower I needed at my disposal, though this was my first time using a lore other than Life, so I proceeded with caution. His mage took Lore of Fire, getting Flame Storm and Cascading Fire-Cloak.

---
Turn One
Winning the initiative, he proceeded to open up full bore, marching forwards will everything save his bolt thrower, which targeted the flanking skirmisher unit, killing 4 in the process (The Skinks held their ground). The mage (owing to poor rolling for the winds of magic) used all available dice in the casting of Flame Storm, which scattered wildly (a good thing too; it would potentially have dealt a serious blow to the skink cohort). The Sea Guard also shot, though poorly, and only killed a single skirmisher (from the main unit) for their troubles.

The Lizardmen, in deference to their fallen comrades, proceeded to reap a bloody toll. The Priest rolled beautifully for his magic, first successfully casting Thunderbolt (killing 4 Swordmasters, who made their panic check), followed by a devastating casting of Chain Lightning, which proceeded to kill another 2 Swordmasters, 5 Sea Guard, and 3 Phoenix Guard. Sadly, the Salamander rolled short, and failed to hit anything. Shooting from the skirmishers in range killed another triplet of Sea Guard, followed by another pair of Phoenix Guard (all units making the needed panic checks). The chameleons killed a crew member of the bolt thrower, panicking the other, and disabling the ballista for a turn (which, frankly, was rather disappointing shooting for 20 dice).

Turn 2
Turn two started off with an attempted charge of both skirmisher units, who promptly fled away from the chargers, who were left out in the open for the next round of shooting. His mage proceeded to cast Cascading Fire-Cloak, which miscasted, robbing the mage of all magic ability. His Sea Guard rolled dismally for shooting, failing to hit any of the Lizardmen standing in front of them, and so gave the Lizardmen a brief respite, expecting the favor in return.

The Lizardmen gave the Elves their dues, blasting apart another half-dozen elves with Chain Lightning, with the Comet of Cassandora directly in front of the Sea Guard as further punishment. Shooting saw one squad of Chameleons finish off the bolt thrower, while the other chewed at the Swordmasters, dropping a few more of their number. The skirmishers eliminated another couple Sea Guard and Phoenix Guard, and the salamander making up for the last round, killing 9 of the Sea Guard in the process, reducing them to a functionally useless entity (around 4 or so).

Turns 3 On
By this point, the game was all but decided. The lizardmen continued to eat the elves alive, who, despite my brother's best efforts to get into melee combat to weather the storm of shooting aimed at him, only succeeded to enter it once; on turn five, a mere 4 phoenix guard entered melee with a unit of skirmishers, and, to their credit, killed four of the skinks. However, their victory was short lived, as the stegadon, who had a very quiet battle, charged in, obliterating the Phoenix Guard (working out to something in the manner of 12 unsaved wounds).

At the end of turn six, it was only the Elven former-mage remaining, surrounded by the bodies of his comrades, and a massive number of skinks and scary things swarming straight at him.

In the end, the battle saw the High Elves wiped out to a single man/elf, with the Lizardmen only suffering 14 casualties in return (13 skirmishers, 1 handler). The Priest took the honor for most useful unit, easily blasting apart twice his worth in points.

I'll probably write up the second battle tomorrow (less outright victory, more fiddly work), but it was great to see a list I was merely testing out proceed to work beyond my expectations.

 

[Tundrik]

Re: 1000 Points, Lizardmen Versus High Elves

Well done on the win. You have to love the amount of shots you can get with lots of skinks, just means you have to buy more dice

Is there anything you would change after the battle about your list?

 

[ShasOFish]

Re: 1000 Points, Lizardmen Versus High Elves

Is there anything you would change after the battle about your list?

After the battle, I looked through the list, and went through everything line by line, and changed a few things.

For one, the ranked skinks accomplished nothing. They sat behind a screening unit of skirmishers, looked pretty, and served as a back-up in the case that the skirmishers panicked and fled (Which didn't happen). The ranked skinks where therefore replaced with a third unit of skirmishers.

Another change made was the Chief; because he did not enter melee combat, and because any gains made by the Chief would be overshadowed by the losses suffered by the other skinks, I re-equipped him as a ranged combatant; the Skink Chief shown in the link in the first thread is the current incarnation, and (in the second battle) worked reasonably well). This had the further advantage of decreasing his cost, meaning additional skirmishers.

I took the Stegadon a second time, given that, under normal circumstances, I would not necessarily know what my opponent would take, and thus having a significant unit like that would potentially be handy.

The only other changes made were adding Stalkers to the Chameleon units; I figured giving them a try was in order, and hoped that the extra point of accuracy would come in handy.


The High Elve list for the battle did not change; he felt confident enough that deploying better in the next battle would give him enough of an advantage.

I'll post the battle report tomorrow; feel free to ask any questions.

 

[Eladimir]

Re: 1000 Points, Lizardmen Versus High Elves [Update, 2/1/2011]

With the change of chorts to skirmishers now thats gonna be alot of skinks.
Good luck and I look forward to seeing the 2-0 streak hit 3-0

 

[ShasOFish]

Re: 1000 Points, Lizardmen Versus High Elves [Update, 2/1/2011]

Thanks; I've got Game #2's report in the works at the moment (Cancelled classes make for great writing time).

 

[ShasOFish]

Re: 1000 Points, Lizardmen Versus High Elves [Update, 2/1/2011]

Anyway, the second battle; a glorious rematching of wits and tactics to light up the battlefield (well, the dining room table, anyway). My brother, reeling from the last game, became rather paranoid about deployment; not that surprising, actually. I initially figured that he would try to enter melee combat earlier; that's where he did better last game, anyway.

The changes I mentioned were made, while he maintained the same list; he said that deploying better and rolling better on the dice would do well for him, and so little fine-tuning went into his list.

The table was set up different this time; tree formations were smaller, more scattered. A small number of ruins lined the center of the board, putting some hard cover on the table that the more aggressive player could get close enough to the other without taking too many casualties (again, leaning more towards his favor, providing he took advantage of them. I didn't want anything so overt as a handicap, so the terrain was slightly off-center to the half he wanted).

We mutually agreed to pick the table sides we wanted; rolling of for deployment, I rolled first drop, and one by one the units were set up; his repeater deployed dead center in his army, with a 11-inch gap between him and the far table edge. I placed aggressively, deploying the skirmishers in a loose line, with the skink chief deployed behind the Priest's unit. Salamander, as per normal tactics, was deployed in the notch formed by the front unit. The Stegadon likewise deployed in the trees, where it remained the majority of the game. The chameleons, unable to get behind the High Elves, deployed in the wide flanks, taking cover in the trees to avoid the return fire that would be inevitable (because of the way my brother deployed, only the repeater was in range of both units, giving slight protection to one, compared to the other).

Rolling for spells was fairly normal; I rolled a 1, 2, and 4 on the chart, and decided that I'd give Wind Blast a try (given that, under normal circumstances, that first half of the Heaven's Lore is rather underwhelming to me.), and so used that the first couple turns. My brother tried out Lore of Shadow, and rolled well under normal conditions (Pit of Shades is Pit of Shades, but my skinks can avoid the brunt of it's anger, and the Stegadon was far enough back to be out of range).\

First Turn

Gaining the initiative, my little skinks marched forwards, with two of the units taking cover in the ruins, and the latter straddling them, risking a turn of shooting in exchange for a superior position next time. The salamander likewise was able to gain favorable cover, with a single turn of movement needed to reach an excellent firing position. Magic went reasonably well (despite a grand total of 5 power dice, compared to 4 dispel), with the Swordmasters pushed back several inches (though they took no damage from that push). The chameleons blew darts, killing a pair of Phoenix Guard and a Swordmaster.

The High Elves responded, killing 3 of the skirmishers caught out in the open with the bolt thrower, and the Sea Guard fired at the chameleons near them, hitting once (6's then 4+ is a very strong deterrent), which then failed to wound. They otherwise accomplished very little; afraid of the salamander, they didn't move forward, and his spell failed to go off.

Turn Two:

Started off smoothly, with the remaining skink unit marching into cover. The Priest got Wind Blast off again, and, after a call to our GW friend, we learned that, since we couldn't find an FAQ that covered what happens if a unit gets blown into a table edge, if a unit touches the table edge, it would be removed (we have since learned that it would simply stop an inch away, and take the hits). This was a fun revelation for me, as it turned an otherwise simplistic defensive spell into a powerful way of terrorizing my opponent. Not that that ever kicked in; he would move up his units after they would get hit, preventing any real breakthroughs with the spell. Shooting was relatively calm, with a pair of Swordmasters and another Phoenix Guard falling to my chameleons. The Salamander, at the very edge of effective range (rolled a 10 on the artillery dice) hit three Sea Guard, killing a single model.

With the new threat caused by Wind Blast, the High Elves finally moved forward, getting to about 14 inches away from the Skinks; the Swordmasters attempted to charge the unit of Chameleons by them, who promptly ran away. Elven magic failed miserably, rolling up a pair of power dice (For a total of three at his disposal), and so failed to cast anything successfully for that. Shooting was somewhat effective for him, managing to kill a Chameleon, and another pair of Skirmishers.

Turn Three:

Lizardmen movement was limited, but effective. The salamander moved forward into an optimum firing position, while the skinks adjusted themselves into cover better. The Stegadon also moved forward, taking cover behind a very large outcropping. The one unit of chameleons rallied, and marched forwards into hard cover. Magic went well, with 11 power dice at my disposal, resulting in the swordmasters blown back once again (though too much; the unit of chameleons by them was now out of shooting range!), and a vicious Thunderbolt struck down the annoying bolt thrower.

The High Elves hit back, though without the bolt thrower their firepower paled in comparison to the well entrenched Skinks. The mage miscast, and while killing two handlers for the Salamander, it did so (once again) at the price of the Mage's casting ability. The Phoenix Guard attempted to charge the Chameleons who, by virtue of their orientation, would not have easily survived a good retreat. Instead, they all fired away with their blowguns, killing 3 of the Phoenix Guard. Shooting saw the Sea Guard kill the remaining Handlers for the Salamander, and wounding the Salamander itself (who stood his ground). The close combat saw two of the Chameleons fall to the Phoenix Guard, while killing one in return. They fled, making to just over an inch away from the table edge, and the Phoenix Guard stopping about two inches away from them; an ideal situation, provided they could rally and get farther away.

Turn Four, Five, Six
The last three turns played out very quickly; because the High Elves were seriously depleted by this point, a turn lasted about 15 minutes a person, and saw several more casualties for the Lizardmen. The Priest miscasted, losing Thunderbolt in the process, but continued to frustrate the efforts by the High Elve Swordmasters to get a charge in; the Salamander landed another solid hit on the Sea Guard, while the skirmishers and chameleons took out a bunch of the Swordmasters (reducing them to four models), and bringing down the Sea Guard to a rank and a half. The Chameleon unit who was hit by the Phoenix Guard rallied beautifully, and responding with a solid round of shooting, with six shots killing the remaining Guardsmen.

By the end of turn six, the Lizardmen outnumbered the High Elves by at least three to one, and were in a position to quickly change that ratio: a solid victory.


Endgame:
In the end, while the Swordmasters, Sea Guard, and Mage were still on the table, the Swordmasters were significantly depleted, the Wet Nurses were probably only a turn away from also being wiped out, and the Mage was misnamed at this point. At the same time, the skinks were still in good health (only losing about 8 total), and while the Salamander was bereft of handlers, it was in excellent position to continue to attack it's prey. The Chameleons were (percentage wise) the most depleted, they had accounted for themselves tremendously.

Post-Game Changes:

The Stegadon had to go. It hit nothing, couldn't charge quickly enough to end up in close combat, and really just sat and looked pretty. I'm sure that, in one game or another it'll be a brutal killing machine, but for now, it's just scenery on my desk. Maybe I'll reconsider.

The skirmishers did very well, once again. Exploiting cover kept them alive, which, granted, is always a vagary to not be relied on, but cover is generally common enough that the units could exploit it to get close enough.

The chameleons finally took casualties, but the more than made up for it. With the one unit wiping out the Phoenix Guard, and the other taking a large chunk out of the Swordmasters, the little devils proved themselves again.

The Salamander also proved himself again, and it's reached the point where, now that I'm dropping the stegadon, I'm going to start to use a second one to help 'compensate.'

Tomorrow's going to be a game against my brother's (supposedly) 5-0-0 Dwarven gunline army. This will be a nice treat, and I'll try to keep on the ball with the battle report. Chances are this will be a tough battle, but if I do well against the dwarves (and if it's confirmed with a second victory, or even just a very close loss), then I will know that they did well against one of the armies I was most worried about.

At some point soon (perhaps as early as Sunday), I've got a game scheduled against one of the GW redshirts in my area, and his Skaven Horde army. This should be interesting, as he apparently goes almost entirely for raw numbers (claiming 200+ models in a 1000 point game, which is not unreasonable). It'll be interesting to see the reversal in terms of outnumbering, and if skirmishing, combined with what will probably a near impunity to return fire, will seize the day.

As always, questions, comments, concerns, and the like will be entertained.

 

[ShasOFish]

Re: 1000 Points, Lizardmen Versus High Elves [Update, 2/1/2011]

Sorry for the delay in the next battle; turns out my last opponent was a little reluctant to do battle again, even after seeing the current list and what not...

Anyway, I got out of the spawn pit today, and did battle against the High Elves yet again; this time, a new player, with a very different style of play. He reasoned that, by dropping all his heroes, save for a very plain prince, he could field more infantry (which was reasonable, though somewhat questionable). He went with a large number of Sea Guard (probably running ~80% as many soldiers as I had, overall), with a Repeater Bolt Thrower, Tiranoc Lion Chariot, and a small unit of Swordmasters as support.

The battle, as most do, started slowly, and finished relatively quickly, the first couple turns taking ~30 minutes each, and the last three done in an additional 30. My skinks worked their wonders again, annihilating him down to a single Sea Guard by the end of turn 6, surrounded by the surviving skinks, chameleons, terradons, and salamander. Unfortunately, I took it on the chin compared to the last pair of games, suffering ~55% casualties (points-wise), and watching the battle standard bearer get run off the table by the Swordmasters. The salamanders did alright, the one killing about 1.5 times it's worth, though the other was killed off by the swordmasters before doing anything successfully. The chameleons likewise seemed less effective this time round, killing a half-dozen Sea Guard and a Swordmaster, which is nothing to complain about, but less in comparison to previous games.

The terradons, who I've seen much-maligned all over Lustria, performed absolutely magnificently. Dropping rocks on the Swordmasters killed a pair of them, with the javelins from the riders eliminating the bolt thrower with a pair of beautiful sixes (he failed his armor checks, but that's besides the point). They survived a round of shooting from sixteen Sea Guard with only a single casualty, and proceeded to be ignored for the rest of the game, claiming another pair of Swordmasters, and three Sea Guard to their credit.

As with the other two battles, the Priest performed beautifully, killing dozens of the elves over the course of the game, taking only a single wound from a miscast (granted, he killed two skinks in the process, but that was minor). It brings me to the semi-crazy idea of dropping the Skink Chief for a second Skink Priest; By taking a plain Level 2 Skink, I skirt in under the points limit, and have 5 of the 6 spells from Lore of Heavens to work with (which all but guarantees Urranon's Thunderbolt and Chain Lightning), as well as a certain level of magical resiliency (being capable of exploiting the magic phase, even after a nasty Miscast potentially removes a Priest), but at the price of Leadership resiliency (something which the Skinks sorely lack). I suppose a game or two would be in order to test out this, in an effort to see if stretching the Magic Phase (something which these little guys are dominating) to the limit will be an advantage.

As always, questions, comments, criticisms are welcome.

 

[The Hunted]

Re: 1000 Points, Lizardmen Versus High Elves [Update, 2/12/2011]

What can I say....nice!

In regard to the battle with your brother:
Just imagine that high elf mage, survived the first battle-> but lost his ability to cast magic. So, he studied for many hundreds years to gain this ability again..to lose it again in the first next battle! , lovely.

It seems that you know how to handle your skirmisher units very well. They rarely get in combat, and you have good firing positions.
My main question is: what do you do when your opponent has cavalry (read: fast, armoured stuff) or armoured units in general?

Armoured infantry naturally is the target of salamanders. But if your opponent is, say, the Empire; and uses 2x5 vanilla knights, mortar and infantry units. What would be your gameplan? Hide in forests? This is something I still find hard in 8th->protecting my skirmishers from cavalry, whilst still using them in the battle (effectively).

The Hunted

 

[ShasOFish]

Re: 1000 Points, Lizardmen Versus High Elves [Update, 2/12/2011]

My main question is: what do you do when your opponent has cavalry (read: fast, armoured stuff) or armoured units in general?

Armoured infantry naturally is the target of salamanders. But if your opponent is, say, the Empire; and uses 2x5 vanilla knights, mortar and infantry units. What would be your gameplan?

I can definitely say I've put some thought in how to best deal with those; the best I can say is a combination of magic, salamanders, and the reduction of improbabilities where ever possible; the auto-hits of the Terradon's boulders, to the exploitation of poison in the hands of skinks and chameleons. Combined with mass fire, he's bound to fail a roll or two eventually, and, given that knights are fairly small units (Chaos Knights, as an example, could cap out at a maximum of 12, which would severely stretch the points budget available), though not just for points reasons; a large unit of knights becomes unwieldly (being far too wide to maneuver well), or, in the case of Bretonnian lances, too long to turn well. Combine that with the large footprint such a unit has, they're either played close to the center, relying on a deadshot towards the opponent's lines (and thus getting into combat before too many can be eliminated), or off to a flank, staying out of the way so that they can get involved in the second half of the game.

The problem with the elite cavalry though, is that they are expensive; hence, the opponent will be more likely to have a limited number of units, meaning that the sheer number of skirmisher units will mulligan him to the point of being open to judicious placement of the chameleons, terradons, and salamanders. And since the priests are deployed after the main body anyway, they can be put into useful positions as well.

Heavy infantry I am not quite as worried about. While in melee combat they would tear my little skinks to pieces, they have to reach there first. While a hit-and-fade may only kill one or two at a time, the skinks will be kept out of arm's reach long enough to hit with a salamander or a judicious thunderbolt. And while panic is nothing to rely on, a single failed check will force them back, making them rally and losing a turn of net movement in order to return to where they were before.

Against the Empire unit you described, I would probably use the Chameleons in traditional fashion: distracting the infantry units, or eliminating the mortar. If not that, then they would begin to fire at the knights, hopefully eliminating one or two. In all cases, they would be positioned in the rear half of the unit, making an effective wheel to engage unlikely, and forcing a reform in order to shoot (which, in turn, prevents a charge). The terradons would fly over either the knights or the mortar (depending on the positioning of both), dropping rocks in the process, and hopefully either eliminating a knight or two, or eliminating the mortar. Skirmishers would move into cover (or into better cover), and fall back if a charge is mounted against them. The Priest(s) would be used again the knights, casting Urannon's Thunderbolt against them, or, if Chain Lightning is available, start at the farthest unit, and (hopefully) work's it's bloody way down the line, culminating in a dead knight or two, if not more. The salamanders would likewise do what they do best, and hit the large blocks of infantry with all sorts of nastiness.

 

[The Hunted]

Re: 1000 Points, Lizardmen Versus High Elves [Update, 2/12/2011]

now the only thing I could say:

show me!

Which I won't. No, really!

The Hunted

and show me!

 

[ShasOFish]

Re: 1000 Points, Lizardmen Versus High Elves [Update, 2/12/2011]

now the only thing I could say:

show me!

Which I won't. No, really!

The Hunted

and show me!

I myself would want to see that as well, though there are few empire players that I see (mostly orcs, high elves, chaos and skaven).

 

[lustria]

Re: 1000 Points, Lizardmen Versus High Elves [Update, 2/12/2011]

would be great to see some picies at the start of battle thanks,
lucstria

 

[Forsak3n_Oldblood]

Re: 1000 Points, Lizardmen Versus High Elves [Update, 2/12/2011]

its nice to see an all skink army stand up to HE like that.

im thinking of starting one up myself and had a few questions for you:

1)what would you field at 2k pts? more skirmishers, skrox units, etc?

2)how would you take on a horde of say....goblins or skaven? or even ogres(or other multi wound model units)?

thanks and keep up the good work.

 

[ShasOFish]

Re: 1000 Points, Lizardmen Versus High Elves [Update, 2/12/2011]

As it happens, I have a battle planned for the first weekend of march against a Skaven Horde player, so we'll get to see what happens. I'll be sure to take pictures as well, which would probably help me write a better battle report than the normal retrospective that it has been.

Anyway, questions:

1)what would you field at 2k pts? more skirmishers, skrox units, etc?.

I'm not entirely sure how I would scale this up to 2000 points; certainly the salamander units would be beefed up (probably 2x2, with extra handlers for all), and the terradons would get a small boost (going from 3 to 5), but beyond that, things get hazy; I'd probably avoid the Slann, mostly because of the theme, even though it is an incredibly potent unit. I'd probably drop back down to one Priest (or take two, and have the second be entirely bare-bones), and field an Engine of the Gods for him; while it would certainly make him much more vulnerable, having the additional crew and the stegadon itself (not to mention my rather anomalous survival record with the stegadon) would give him a reasonable chance of surviving a few rounds of shooting, and the ward save for all the skirmishers in range would be definitely useful. Beyond that, I'd say more skirmishers, maybe another unit of chameleons (and/or beefing up the existing units), and generally getting the numbers up to a relatively large size.

2)how would you take on a horde of say....goblins or skaven? or even ogres(or other multi wound model units)?

Horde armies are something that I've definitely had to do some pondering on. At the moment, my Salamanders are going to be a huge boon for me in regards to this problem; with an optimum hit hitting ~30 20mm bases (the typical size for armies that would potentially field massive numbers of troops), which would most likely kill 50% or more of those hit (assuming the opponent does not have Lore of Life to beef them up, or assuming that if he does, I can dispel it).

With armies like Skaven and Goblins, and units like skavenslaves or goblins, which are fielded in huge units, this is still a massive number of casualties to take, and could potentially even lead to a panic check. Now granted, Panic is nothing to rely on, but one failed check could debilitate an entire flank, or put a large unit out of position long enough to render it much less useful.

Other armies that could be fielded in large numbers generally have better leadership, so relying on panic is much less reliable, but I'm sure that between the skirmisher picking off a few every round, to the Priests and Salamanders laying into them with magic and fire, that they'll go down without too much worry.

 

[Forsak3n_Oldblood]

i was considering in a high enough point game using 3 stegs, one with either a priest w/ EoTG or a Chief w/ war spear, and the other 2 with giant bow or pipes. gives 3 large targets for the opponent to shoot at and the rest of the army can be filled with with skirmishers, sallies, harrassers and such.

should be interesting to try one day.


back on topic though....good luck on the game and cant wait to see the report.