7th Ed. 1250 vs HE

[The Hunted]

Hey everyone,

I'm back with a new battle at our normal points level: 1250 points. This time, I was fighting High Elves...
I'll put it more in a summary, as it wasn't the most exciting battle...
My list:

Skink Priest - Level 2, Cloak of Feathers, Plaque of Tepok
Skink Priest - Level 2, Rod of the Storm
Scar-Veteran - LA,GW,Sh,CotJW

15 Saurii, spears, st,mu
15 Saurii, spears, st,mu
10 skirmishers
10 skirmishers
10 skinks
6 chameleon skinks
4 Terradons
1 Salamander

This is my list which has magic, I like the way everything works together. The lack of any real hammers is overcome by the whole army.

HE list:

1x Noble BSB, Banner of Sorcery
1x Mage, Level 2, extra PD, choose spells
17 Spears, FC (BSB)
14 White Lions
5 Dragon Princes
5 Dragon Princes
2x RBT

Spells:
I got Uranons Thunderbolt on both mages. The rest didn't matter as I only casted this spell this game
he chose High magic, spell 1 and 4. (ward save + magic Missile)

The Battle
I won the first turn, and quite simply: moved forward max. One of my skirmishing skinks were in range of Dragon Princes, to set-up an overrun. Which would be fought out next turn, and in that turn my other Saurii could flank!
I failed to cast the first Thunderbolt. Casted the second, but it was dispelled and the Rod of the Storm was activated. 6 hits and 6 wounds later = 5 dragon princes dead.
bingo!

He replied by charging my bait, killing all but not overruning. He would flee my charge, putting me in an awkward position regarding his white lions Shooting and magic acounted for some skinks and a handfull of Saurus. Nothing spectacular...


The Dragon Princes fled my charge (which i failed), then the white lions attempted to charge my Saurus in the flank, but I fled THIS charge...Unfortunately I only fled 4". Which was just bad, the white lions caught and destroyed my unit! HAd i fled 1"more, I would have been safe...
So, My magic turns to more Dragon Princes, which I fail I do get my Charm of the Jaguar Warrior on his lone mage though...Killing him outright and removing his magic offence and defence! The Scar-vet was shot down next turn.

White Lions turn and face my Saurii, My Saurii move away allowing a turn of magic on them...
Magic killed the last Dragon Princes, while my Terradons and skinks were killing his RBT's. The white lions got casualties from the Salamander and magic, but held.
White Lions charge My Saurii, kill 3 but I kill 4 back. He fails his stubborn break test, flees but outruns me.
They will be scorched by magic next turn.

At this point he only has his 17 Spears (16 by that point) and his BSB Noble facing my whole army minus 1x15 Saurus and 6 chameleons...They have to face 2 turns of shooting and a turn of magic.
My shooting+magic kills every single one of them, in turn 5!

Result: Massacre!

This was the first time anyone in our group wiped the other player off the board. Which was quite cool,
but: My dice were on fire the whole battle...
Everytime I casted Uranons thunderbolt, I got at least 5 hits. 5 hits VS T3 elves isn't fair deal
He didn't like the result, but admitted he didn't really have a chance after i rolled Thunderbolt twice!
Hope you enjoyed this short report, i'll try to do it better next time

The Hunted

 

[Sebulba]

Cool battle, I like the way you set up your heroes. I have the same except I think I took out the cloak of feathers in favor of some other units. Just make sure if you ever take out the skink priests to lose the charm of the jaguar warrior because if you can't drain their dispell dice they will dispell the charm every time.
You really lucked out with spells though. But, then again, that's the weakness of calvary based armies. You have a LOT less units to lose before you find yourself unable to win the game.

What happened to the chameleon skinks btw? I was toying around with the idea of getting some but I was wondering how you used them.

Never having played high elves before, I'm unsure of what those units do. How devastating would it be for one of your units of saurus to be charged by the dragon princes? Also, why did you flee the white lions? Are they a powerful unit too?

In this game you didn't really need any hammers, but do you ever miss having one or two?

 

[Starblayde]

Never having played high elves before, I'm unsure of what those units do. How devastating would it be for one of your units of saurus to be charged by the dragon princes? Also, why did you flee the white lions? Are they a powerful unit too?

Fluff-wise, Dragon Princes only ride horses because there aren't enough Dragons left in the world for them to all have one in battle, they're the toughest and most elite of Elven cavalry (above the Silver Helms and... the others who's name escapes me). Being charged by them and their lances is not fun in anyone's book.

White Lions, too, carry massive axes and guard the High Elves' Phoenix King, so they're pretty much like DE Black Guard. The only thing that's not immediately scary in the HE army posted is the Spearmen.

 

[The Hunted]

Thanks for the replies

@ Sebulba:
I know that if one of my wizards die, i'm in trouble...But since one of them flies and the other is kept safe by moving around and stuff; it has not happened so far!
As for spells, I did get lucky. Just as last time we faced eachother...
The chameleons seem to surprise me every battle, in a positive way that is.
This battle:

They scouted behind/in some forest. Getting ready to move out and march-block the Dragon Princes and Spearmen. (these DP were scorched first turn)
The Spearmen wheeled to face them somewhat, as my opponent prefers defense above offense. My Chameleons then move out of their LOS, marchblocking them, and if the spearmen move away the chameleons now have clear sight of an RBT.
Spearmen move up, thus LOS is granted. RBT fires at chameleons (always fine by me!), needing 5's to hit at close range, he kills one.
Chameleons charge the RBT, with ASF he kills one more and i kill 1 crew back.
At this point the skinks are safe, they crew can only kill 1 skink and I will always have outnumbering. I can always kill his last crew...
Crew holds another round, while the spearmen turn around to face the chameleons.
Chameleons kill crew, and get utterly smashed by spearmen.
THAT is what they did this battle.

In other battles they scout ahead and be in 'annoy' position way earlier then my ordinary skinks. They can redirect from turn 1 and further, really messing with your opponents plans/charge lanes. If they ever get shot at, they'll most likely survive. -2 to hit is really good. And well, if opponents shoot at skinks: it's rarely a bad thing...
For, in my case, 72 points, they are a steal!

Regarding HE units:
I can withstand a charge from 5 dragon princes with a FULL unit of 15 Sauri spears. I'd rather not though, as it will be pretty dicey (in my favor but still). If i had a BSB, i'd take it.
5 DP = 15 Saurri+ preferably more. BSB prefered.
4 DP = 12-15 Saurii. More is always better. BSB prefered
3 DP = 12+ Saurrii, if more saurus are present. No BSB needed.
2 DP = Probably 8+ Saurrii, but if 2 DP are there, they probably go skink hunting
1 DP = 5+, see above.

White Lions aren't that powerfull compared to my Saurrii. I just didn't want them in my flank! That would be...nasty..
S6, killing blow and stubborn on 8. Solid unit IMO. Fall in droves vs loads of S4 attacks, which we happen to have!

Regarding Hammers:
YES I miss them. A LOT!
But I think I learn to think through my moves better if I don't have them. Now I'm setting traps all over the place, not needing hammers. I prefer bait mode, over smash mode. Although, I like smashing stuff
My other list has 2 Scar-vets on Cold ones. They tackle small units on their own, which is something I much like. Problem is, their stupid. And I like control...
Next problem: With 2 scar-vets, i'm heavily relying on them killing stuff. And they can have an off day too, but 20+ spear attacks and Ld8 Cold-Blooded don't really have off-days (*knocks off*)

Anything else? , I'm more then willing to explain

@ Starblayde:
Indeed the Spears aren't that threatening, it's a nice block though; capable of destroying a depleted Saurii unit. And fending off a fresh unit pretty well actually...
I hate GW+ASF BSB's...

The Hunted

 

[Sebulba]

How about this one, do you see skrox units as viable? Not really a "hammer" but if you had 11 skinks + a kroxigor you get +3 combat res (4 if with a banner) plus flank plus outnumber plus all the ranks they take away from hitting a flank plus whatever they kill.
Against a 5x4 block that's 3+1+1+3+x is at least 8 combat res generated in your favor (the second three coming from the loss of your opponents ranks).

I know that some of them will die... but will 8 of them die? I took this formation in my last game against skaven and it did rather well. What do you think?

 

[Bibamus]

i tend to find HE spears dangerous, in a standard 5x4 formation with full command they have 5 static res and 16 WS 4 S3 attacks when they get charged... thats a lot of dice

 

[The Hunted]

http://www.lustria-online.com/threads/scar-vet-in-kroxi-skink-units.2843/
For my comments on Skrox units...check that topic. Pretty much has it all.
In summary here:
No, I do not find them viable. Versus anything stronger than a cold night, nope.
Everybody assumes you can outflank elves...Ofcourse if pretty doable. But still...a LOT of if's and but's if you ask me...(which is what you did )
@ Bibamus:
HE Spears aren't that dangerous. Yes, they also have a lot of attacks. Yes, they have better acces to SCR than us...Yes, they strike at S3!
In a grind, we just beat the snot out of them. S4 vs Elves =
Btw, see tactics section for some of my ideas....(if you want to , can't force ya!)

The Hunted

 

[Sebulba]

I guess I just like them because 1) kroxigors and skinks are perhaps my favorite models in the range and 2) they get so many special rules for a 124 point unit (110 without command). Fear is cool because every once in a while something won't charge them or something will need 6's to hit them. And they aren't nearly as affected by terror and don't autobreak to fear causers. Aquatic is cool too. A lot of situational stuff but I like them a lot.
But I concede that they are, like most things in the Lizardmen army, only as good as what you use them with. A saurus block supported by one of these units will be in pretty good shape. They're just so much combat res... if you can get them in the flank of something your should be golden. They serve a different purpose than saurus too. You can't interchange them very well.

Anyway, let us know how you do in the future!

 

[maniclurker]

What is a "hammer"?

 

[Sebulba]

Well, the hammer and anvil is a tactic frequently used in warhammer. The anvil, say a block of saurus warriors, is a really durable unit which is meant to take a charge and hold. The hammer, say some cold one riders, are a faster, more maneuverable unit which is designed to smash into the flank. Generally the hammer is something that won't win extended combats but on the charge they are unbeatable.

Everyone and their brother uses this tactic. I bet you were already using it but now you know the jargon

 

[Okopipi]

Well, the hammer and anvil is a tactic frequently used in warhammer. The anvil, say a block of saurus warriors, is a really durable unit which is meant to take a charge and hold. The hammer, say some cold one riders, are a faster, more maneuverable unit which is designed to smash into the flank. Generally the hammer is something that won't win extended combats but on the charge they are unbeatable.

Everyone and their brother uses this tactic. I bet you were already using it but now you know the jargon

You could argue that most things in the LM list are the hammer to a Saurus anvil.