8th Ed. 1500 againt dark elves, somewhat competitive list.

[Theophaniel]

Hello Everyone,

As promised, here is the summary for the game I played against my Dark Elves friend this Week End. I used a list and a though process similar as to what I described in this post:
http://www.lustria-online.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=13849

The list I actually used was this one:

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LORD
Slann Loremaster HM + Dispell Sc

HEROES
Kuraq, AoDestiny, Cold one, GW

Kuraq, LA GW Dragon Helm, Dawnstone, luckstone, Cold One

CORE
2 *10 Skirmisher (jav)

21 saurus + Full Command

SPE
3 ripperDactyls

RARE
Ancient Steg

Salamander + snack

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His army was a nasty piece of work.
He had:
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Morathi.

1 Sorceress lvl1 metal with searing doom on steed.

1 Master on pegasus , cav lance and the cloak that gives you the 3+ ward against shooting and magic or similar. Bringing him to 1+ flying and S6 when charging.

Core:
2 * Dark rider (light cav)

10 * Witch

Spe:
2 * Bolt Thrower

Rare:

2 * 5 Doomfire warlock.

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Random considerations:

- 4 wizards is insane in that list he rolled at least 1 dice more per magic phase.

- That army is highly mobile, He was always able to clear line of sight for his boltthrower, always out of charge range, actually, my stegadon never saw cac. He spent the game pivoting around and shooting darts….

- NEVER get charged with a slann in a skink skirmisher bunker. I got oblivious and got charged by an overrun of 3 doomfire into the slann in a 10 skirmisher unit. the Doomfire did 4 kills. I killed one was flanked, and charged. And then I realized I had to test on 3… and fled. Got caught up and lost the slann.

- High magic isn’t the most useful lore against this kind of army, most of the spell aren’t usable. Next time i’ll take wandering deliberation. More spell to play with.

- My opponent knew how deadly kuraq can be. They didn’t last 2 turn, as he directed the boltthrower and every thing he had against them. I don’t really know how I could have protected them better. Scrolled the first searing doom but the second got him on T2. and one of the BoltT got a sight of an edge of the base and did one wound turn 1 and 1 wound turn 2. Maybe I should invest in Coc as a delivery system.

- Ripper didn’t do much. Once out of the bubble of the slann they get random due to the lack of CD. They easily killed one dark rider unit on T1. Then failed to restrained and charged into morathi. Who slaughtered them, with charming beauty (-5 to WS if you fail a cd test). Plus you can’t killing blow her because of the pegasus.
I should probably boost them to Five models.

- The salamander did nothing. like…. completely useless. Might ass well got myself a 1400 pts army. To many fast, small and avoiding units.

- the shadow bubble spell is just insane. -1/-1 to strength/toughness in a 24’’ radius wrecked me. He got ires on this one with Morathi. Morathi lost 3 lvl and 3 spell but she didn’t need much more. She is quite potent in close combat.

- Asf giving reroll on hit and deadly prowess rerolling one to wound is so deadly…. My Saurus unit got halved even before being able to strike back against the witch and the Master on pegasus. The unit held the 2 next turns though. Had I been able to counter charge with a kuraq It could have turned the tides. But It got redirected by the other Dark rider unit.

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Bottom line:
- He tabled me, and I was only able to kill 500 worth of model.
- The game ending mistake for me was loosing the slann as alone he would have, withouth a flinch held the 3 doomfire, allowing me to countercharge with my kuraq, wich would, in return have shielded him from the ballista.
- Most of my fighting unit weren’t able to see close combat. the steg, the kuraqs, because of the high avoidance of his list and the strength of his magic phase.

I’m open to suggestions as to what I could do to get more competitive against that kind of lists.

I’ll take the time to do something more detailed with pictures next time, as this time we had to rush it a bit due to me taking a train after. (Or maybe this format is enough ?)

 

[Screamer]

This format is good.

First of, to protect the cowboys from ballista and searing doom you just have to join them to any unit.

They don't have to be the same unit type, that is just against sneaky templates like canons, pit of shades and purple sun.

His list was pretty nasty... but quite vulnerable against kroak bombing or engine of the gods. If the steg can survive, of course.

 

[hdctambien]

Dark Elves don't fight fair. So, my solution to them is to not fight them at all (in hand to hand)!

They all have ASF with rerolls (and are probably hitting you on 3's) and rerolling 1's to wound ... so they pretty much hit and wound with everything they throw at you.

Warlocks have 2 attacks each and poison. Witches have 3 attacks and poison! And their special characters are fighting machines, as you've experienced. But they're only T3 and don't have much armor to speak of.

Saurus are just going to melt against anything the Dark Elves bring to the table. MSU Skinks will frustrate the heck out of the elves though.

Take lots of Skink Skirmishers with Javs. Terradon and Ripperdactyl riders. Chameleon Skinks. (Razordons might work, too. But I've never tried them)

I like to take the Ancient Stegadon with Engine of the Gods to give me a little 6+ Ward Bubble, plus the Burning Alignment works well against Elves.

I've had success using a decked out Ethereal Slann with Loremaster High Magic (and fencer's Blades and War Banner and the MR(2) Item) He can take out little units of Dark Riders, is protected from the Bolt Throwers, and has a 2+ Ward vs magic missiles. I also made great use of Walk Between Worlds to keep him safe from being charged by anything that can hurt him/beat him in CR.

Having a Skink Priest (or two) with Wyssian's is a nice counter to the Shroud of Despair. Also Drain Magic can cut its usefulness in half. I also take Becalming Cogitation to help dispel the Dark Magic. I don't worry about Soul of Stone, because the Slann will be own and won't be taking out big blocks of infantry.

Especially if he's not taking Shades, you want some units of Chameleon Skinks. I take 2 units of 5. They are going to die, so I want them as cheap as possible. Place them at least 12" away from each other and in front of the Vangarding units (Dark Riders & Warlocks). Run them in a single rank of 5 models for maximum vanguard blockage. That'll throw off his battle plan (eventually he will start countering your Chameleons with Shades, and then you just have to claim on side of the board with your Chamos)

Skirmish units are just as maneuverable as fast cav (and Skinks are only 1 movement point slower), so you should be able to keep out of combats just like he was doing to you.

Set yourself up for double flees (use your Terradons to help here, because they can move/shoot after rallying) and keep your Slann behind everything, so your skinks flee into the Reroll/Ld bubble.

So, my suggestions:
(I play 2500 points, so at 1500 you'll probably have to pick and choose bits of these)

1) Ethereal Slann with Becalming, Focus, and Higher State + MR(2), Fencer's Blades, BSB (War Banner)
2) At least 1 Priest with Beasts (maybe Lv 2?)
3) Scar Vets with 4+ Wards / Rerollable Armor Saves
4) I like to throw in a Skink Chief on a Ripperdactyl with the Stegadon Helm
5) Ancient Stegadon with Engine of the Gods (tune the Arcane Configuration to Beast Magic)
6) All Skink Skirmisher core with Javs and Shields
7) Terradons and Ripperdactyls (take multiple units of 3 rather than a single bigger unit)
8) Chameleon Skinks

Strategy #1: Avoid Close Combat. Dark Elves will always win in hand to hand.
Strategy #2: Spread out. Don't let him surround you. Even better if you can surround him! Make him move to shoot you.
Strategy #3: Win the Chaff war. Dark Elves will hit more than you in the shooting phase, you need to beat him with raw numbers of shots.
Strategy #4: Kill the Bolt Throwers! You'll have to throw Skinks at them until they reach their Kill Limit, but those machines will evaporate your skink units until they are dealt with. Use the Stegadon's Ward bubble to protect the Bold Thrower Assault Team as they advance.
Strategy #5: When a skink unit is reduced to 1 or 2 models, run away and hide in the woods! Don't let him get points out of you just to get 1 or 2 more BS3 shots off.



Good luck!