TOW 2000 v Wood elves

[discomute]

Spoiler: Army lists

===
Models2 [1999 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, Lizardmen
===

++ Characters [800 pts] ++

Slann Mage-Priest [375 pts]
- Hand weapon
- General
- Lore Familiar
- Higher State Of Mind
- Necromancy

Saurus Scar-Veteran [339 pts]
- Great weapon
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Battle Standard Bearer
- Carnosaur
- Armour of Meteoric Iron
- Talisman of Protection

Skink Chief [86 pts]
- Cavalry spear (if appropriately mounted)
- Light armour (Calloused hide)
- Shield
- Ripperdactyl

++ Core Units [502 pts] ++

11 Skink Skirmishers [60 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)
- Vanguard

20 Saurus Warriors [321 pts]
- Thrusting spears
- Shields
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Spawn Leader (champion)
- Standard bearer
- Musician

11 Skink Skirmishers [71 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Blowpipes
- Light armour (Calloused hides)
- Patrol Leader (champion)

10 Skink Skirmishers [50 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)

++ Special Units [497 pts] ++

Bastiladon [175 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Thunderous bludgeon
- Solar Engine

3 Ripperdactyl Riders [126 pts]
- Cavalry spears
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)
- Ripperdactyl Champion

4 Kroxigors [196 pts]
- Great weapons
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)

++ Rare Units [200 pts] ++

Troglodon [200 pts]
- Venomous talons
- Vnom spray
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Skink Oracle with hand weapon (required)

===
Welves [2000 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, Wood Elf Realms
===

++ Characters [582 pts] ++

Treeman Ancient [340 pts]
- Level 4 Wizard
- General
- An Annoyance Of Netlings
- Battle Magic

Shadowdancer [120 pts]
- Spear of Loec
- Level 1 Wizard
- Illusion

Glade Captain [122 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Light armour
- Shield
- Asrai Longbow
- On foot
- Dragon Slaying Sword

++ Core Units [596 pts] ++

20 Glade Guard [318 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Asrai Longbows
- Hagbane Tips
- Lord's Bowmen
- Standard bearer [Razor Standard]
- Musician

6 Deepwood Scouts [112 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Asrai Longbows
- Hagbane Tips
- Lord's Bowmen [Asyendi's Bane]
- Musician

6 Dryads [83 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Light armour (Sapwood flesh)
- Nymph

6 Dryads [83 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Light armour (Sapwood flesh)
- Nymph

++ Special Units [597 pts] ++

6 Wardancers [105 pts]
- Hand weapon
- 3x Additional hand weapon
- 3x Throwing Spear
- Bladesinger

17 Wildwood Rangers [281 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Ranger's Glaive
- Light armour
- Wildwood Warden
- Standard bearer [War Banner]
- Musician

5 Wild Riders [211 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Hunting Spear
- Light armour
- Shields
- Wild Hunter [Potion of Toughness]
- Standard bearer [Rampaging Banner]
- Musician

++ Rare Units [225 pts] ++

Treeman [225 pts]
- A Resplendence Of Luminescents

---
Scenario and Deployment

Was an interesting scenario the mountain.pass battle. Very narrow which doesnt suit either army but I think moreso worse for him and he relies a bit on his skirmishers

Deployment went as expected, although if I knew the scout rule I might have hung a unit back a bit to avoid having them in my rear.

Turn 1 - me


Everything moved up slowly. Trog got fireball which didn't cast. Bast didn't either. Frog got the vortex off is all.

Turn 1- him


He focuses his fire on the Troglodon. He only just managed to do 5 wounds to it, so it's dead. I think a spell got off? But mostly it was the archers on the hill. Then the scouts behind did the last wound.

He also won't move to me, and has set up deep. Wants to soften me up a bit. He only runs his treeman at my rippers.


Turn 2 - me


Rippers don't have to charge, so nothing will. I think he's made an error running his tree at them, they just go outside his vision arc and it's at least another turn before he's in combat.

Shooting is poor and magic does nothing. Basti can't get it off.

Turn 2 - him


He fires everything into the rippers. They are a soft target. The rules for the hero in the group are interesting. He does one wound on the hero. He will come close to wiping out my rippers but I make a lot of 6's for the AC (3/4 from memory) and with the rest of shoot he's only taken one off and one with a wound. He later thinks he forgot a razor standard which would have been huge if he did.

His dryads charge my vanguard skinks and comfortably win, FBIGO

Turn 3 - me


Shooting and magic do nothing. I am frustrated at my rolling in that area. But can't complain as those armour saves on the rippers were magic. My carnosaur charges his anti monster infantry and my rippers charge his archers. I am too close to stand and shoot - great rule that!!

Carnosaur combat accepts challenge from hero and the hero does a wound to me... If it has of been a 6 he had a monster slayer sword!!! But it wasn't. I respond poorly (scar vet misses everything) but still kills the hero and we win by 1.Can't remember who won but give ground and it goes on


Rippers roll well (blot toad!) not great but good and they win by 1 or 2. A lucky panic test and the archers are off the table! We don't end up off and we reform.

Dryads win again and skinks FBIGO, behind the bastiladon


Turn 3- him


His treeman hero decides not to give the Kroxs a charge. I think this is a mistake as I'm winning and frankly quite happy not to engage his trees all game.

His dryads charge my bastiladon instead of skinks. Again, was surprised at that decision. That basti is slow as all heck and his shooting is doing nothing. But, combat is close with only one dead dryad but we still win and they GG.

His shooting and spells decimates my rippers and one is left on one wound.

His cav flank charge my carnosaur. I challenge and he refuses. I get some luck when he attacks me and take no wounds. Do a couple back with medium rolls, GG and they both follow up.

Turn 4 - me


My krox have no intention of engaging the tree if they don't have to. Skinks and monsters are getting it done elsewhere.

The ripper has to charge. Choosing a lone dryad (there was a unit in there that got picked at by the jav unit) it charges and with 4x4+/4+ attacks does nothing. The dryad clips him around the ear and the rippers are all gone.

My skinks stand behind the dryads and the bastiladon charges. Wins but only one dead. A bad rolls means they break and take 3 more wounds from the skinks.

My carnosaur rolls very well, with that I now think the luck has unquestionably been with me. Infantry flee off the table, cav are made of sterner stuff and GG.

Turn 4 - him


His treeman face my Saurus block. The carnosaur cuts down all of the cav and frenzy overruns before reforming. This game looks won.

Turn 5 - me


The skinks declare a charge they need a 6 for but that causes the dryads to run off the table (nice use of rules I think). The other skinks pick off what's left of the dryad and wardancers.

The Saurus move up hoping to only get charged in the front.

Turn 5 - him

The general charges and Saurus
His other tree needs a 5 on one of the two dice but only manages a 4. Big result I think, probably would have won anyway but now I will. Treeman easily kills champion and we GG.

His scout archers finally take down a krox

Turn 6 - me
There is overtime here!
Smart play is to sacrifice the Saurus to the tree gods but I will win regardless and so the Krox YOLO and charge.

Off my 9 attacks hitting on a 4+ I.... Hit all of them. 3's to wound and I do 5 wounds, thanks to a single wound from skinks earlier it is dead! Timber! Does 5(!) wounds to the Krox.

The Saurus with their ridiculous spears actually do okay and win combat, I think maybe took a wound off? But take a few back and the general GG.

Basti tries to shoot and fails at the skinks.

Turn 6 him
Scouts get one wound and krox is on 1 model left.

The combat goes back and forth and I think the treeman lost and GG? Either way, it ends and I've won



Why I won, roughly in order
- having the luck in combat helps!
- his treeman did not get into combat until it was too late.
- if he really did forget his razor standard (I think he must have) it is massive. The rippers would have been.wiped out except the hero. Never would have beaten the archers and they would have volled arrows all game. Nothing was really around that could reach the archers.
- his wardancers didn't get into combat at all, he has a level 1 wizard so stayed back but it just let me skinks shoot at them
- also I am starting to think level 4 wizards who can also fight are a bad choice in the old world. You want to do one or the other. His magic went okay and dispel went good but if he's more aggressive with his general, that won't happen. When we unpacked the game I didn't think of it but after writing this out it makes sense to me.
- I think (and I'm not sure) the flank charge into the carnosaur by the cav was a mistake. Let the carnosaur win and run off. Smash the bastiladon, they aren't that good.

Lessons
- solar engine is crap. I'm saying it. You need a 7 to even fire and then odds are it will be dispelled. And you can only move 4 if you want to use it. Bastiladon is a tough sell for me, very slow.
- magic again does little but necromancy absolutely wrong for a high leadership army when half are immune to psychology. Although I rolled a LOT of 9's for leadership so I was glad the frog was there!
- the Kroxigor are made for cutting trees down. Even if I don't roll silly, they should do about a bit under a wound a model on average.
- amazed the Saurus stood up against the general. Maybe infantry isn't that bad it's just those beastmen are ridiculous
- rippers are so fragile I might be better off running them against straight infantry to try to get them into combat faster
- blowpipes are rubbish I think

From my opponent
LESSONS LEARNED:

Stick to the plan, man. I built a list with some decent counters (magic attack treeman into slann, first charge cav into sauruses, blitz skirmishers into skinks, SCUD archers into monsters) and just proceeded into a series of bad decisions.

 

[Kalisto]

Solar engine is great but you have to know how play it! It’s one of the strongest magic missile in the game with a long range to 24”. You have to try to use it outside dispel range. Usually I can use it on a flank (but on this scenario I admit is harder) and 5/6 turns is usually out of dispel range.
Neverless he is a tough guy that can cover a flank and don’t fear some shots against him. Worth it points? Idk but alternatives are not great

 

[discomute]

Solar engine is great but you have to know how play it! It’s one of the strongest magic missile in the game with a long range to 24”. You have to try to use it outside dispel range. Usually I can use it on a flank (but on this scenario I admit is harder) and 5/6 turns is usually out of dispel range.
Neverless he is a tough guy that can cover a flank and don’t fear some shots against him. Worth it points? Idk but alternatives are not great

First turn he was out of range (opponent was well back in deployment zone) and from there I think he was out of range of the level 4 the whole time, I think he failed it two times, one fated dispel. Maybe one hit actually but only killed one dryad? There were some bad rolls but I don't think the general ever got a chance to dispel, why he was positioned there. I admit some bad rolling. The real issue my new discovery I can only move 4' if I want to shoot it. I think I'd prefer to canter down at 8".

 

[Kalisto]

Usually movement is not a big issue, you can march one turn and shoot the other. Potentially range of 36...so you shouldnt have problems. But yeah dispelling and low casts are a problem On the other hand with 3/4 javelins and T5 Bastiladon can cover very well alone every flank. Only monstrous infantery with many attack and great weapons are an issue.

 

[discomute]

Usually movement is not a big issue, you can march one turn and shoot the other. Potentially range of 36...so you shouldnt have problems. But yeah dispelling and low casts are a problem On the other hand with 3/4 javelins and T5 Bastiladon can cover very well alone every flank. Only monstrous infantery with many attack and great weapons are an issue.

Sorry how can it get to 36"? I just reread the spell and it's 24"... Am I missing something?

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Sorry how can it get to 36"? I just reread the spell and it's 24"... Am I missing something?

The spell is 24", but if you March in the first turn when the enemy is out of range anyway (8") and then in the second turn move 4" and use the Solar Engine, it will effectively have a 24 + 8 + 4 = 36" range from your original start position.

I would still advocate the Solar Engine, it's certainly better in 8th in that it requires the enemy to beat your casting roll + the power level to dispel now (compared to 8th where the enemy would just be able to roll to dispel against the spell's Power Level which was easy as anything), and the missile is now a consistently strong one rather than a random toss-up between anything ranging from a very paltry affair to a particularly devastating shot. There's also no risk of a miscast when attempting to cast a Bound Spell like the Beam of Chotec, and as @Kalisto said the new rules for dispel range are your friend too, especially if you sit the Bastiladon a long way from the enemy as you rightly did. It more sounded as though you simply had poor luck in your dice rolls (as I notice the Troglodon struggled to cast Fireball too) in the case of your casting, which can make anything look worse than it is.