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AoS 2K Firelance, can we make it work?

Discussion in 'Seraphon Army Lists' started by Batch, Jun 27, 2019.

  1. Batch
    Cold One

    Batch Active Member

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    Well, Ive always liked the idea of Dinos riding bigger dinos into battle, even if the Knight model is a but derpy, I think with a good colour scheme they can come out quite well.

    Anyway the list
    Allegiance: Seraphon
    Mortal Realm: Ghyran

    Leaders
    Slann Starmaster (260)
    - General
    - Trait: Great Rememberer
    - Artefact: Incandescent Rectrices
    - Spell: Claws of Glory

    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (240)
    - War Spear
    Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur (240)
    - Artefact: Ghyrstrike
    Saurus Astrolith Bearer (160)
    Skink Starpriest (80)
    - Spell: Meteoric Convocation
    Skink Starpriest (80)
    - Spell: Stellar Tempest

    Battleline
    20 x Saurus Knights (320)
    - Lances
    10 x Saurus Knights (160)
    - Lances
    10 x Saurus Knights (160)
    - Lances

    Battalions
    Firelance Starhost (150)

    Endless Spells / Terrain
    Chronomantic Cogs (80)
    Balewind Vortex (40)

    Total: 1970 / 2000
    Extra Command Points: 1
    Allies: 0 / 400
    Wounds: 126


    Alright, so lets get down to strategy and options.

    The Slann shouldnt be casting spells, but if need be Claws of Glory for rerolling hits of one if Im out of CP for the new Command Ability, but those will mainly be used by either Carnosaurs. Summoning Skinks to go forth and capture objectives like the good boys they are.

    Oldblood on Carno with a Gyrestrike to mainly act as a distraction or deal with Pesky heros and big boys.

    Two Skink Starpreists I think are necessary for good spellcasting and giving both knights and Carnos extra damage on bites. With the Scar vets CA and either of our 3 different sources of rerolling hits, the chances of hitting multiple lances and tasty bits are pretty big.

    Hit them hard and fast turn one, cast Claw of Glory on your unit of 20 Knights and get your scar vet to use his CA on the same unit. Teleport them both behind enemy lines, your knights only need to hit a charge roll of 6 due to the battalion giving them 3 inches, and the battalion gives us another CP incase you roll snake eyes on said charge.

    Could be absolutely devastating, and a big old mess that the enemy has to deal with, get your Wizards to set up the Slann Summoning party and provide what ever other challenges we face. Is it competitive? Maybe not, but it does look ridiculously fun.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2019
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  2. ASSASSIN_NR_1
    Carnasaur

    ASSASSIN_NR_1 Well-Known Member

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    Now I don't know how good it would actually be, but if 80 points or 160 if you want two, you could take a skink priest, to enable the knights re-rolls for their charge, making that 6 inch charge even more likely.
     
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  3. Batch
    Cold One

    Batch Active Member

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    Its tempting, but Im already at max heros, and for the combination Im running I still think 2 Skink Starpriests achieve more. Ive used the regular Priests in the past and unfortunately havent had much luck with them, theyre ability is good, but if I dont roll a 4 then they dont do much for the rest of the turn, they need a bit of a rework.
     
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  4. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    I think Firelance is best when run inside of Dracothion's Tail. Here is how I run an actual Knights Themed DT.
     
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  5. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    I rather like the Scar-Vet on Carno for your FL list. What made you decide to run the Oldblood Carno was well, just to have another monster?
     
  6. Batch
    Cold One

    Batch Active Member

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    Thematically I think the Oldblood fits, but on top I quite like his synergy, CA wise with himself.

    With a fast list he looks scary and ultimately if he falls it isnt a big deal, hes a big deadly distraction, while the small units of Knights, and summoned Skinks Grab objectives.
     
  7. fued
    Skink

    fued Member

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    scar vet on a cold ones command ability actually makes them do more damage, especially if u have a skink starpriest for venom. id personally change the carnos for engines, then drop the eternity warden and up a 2nd unit to 20 knights
     
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  8. Batch
    Cold One

    Batch Active Member

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    Nice find, so when I was on Warscroll builder I must have hit eternity warden instead of Astrolith Bearer, so Ive fixed that.

    What I could do, and Ive looked at the dude on Cold one, is include him, take out the Oldblood on Carno then up a second unit to 20. Either that or replace the Oldblood with Engines, which I do like also, and I include one in all my lists, but for a fun list Im just not sure if I want to put it in.
     
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  9. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    This is why I always take the ScV Co in Firelance:D
     
  10. Satt
    Skink

    Satt New Member

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    Just picked up Malign Sorcery so was thinking about factoring more endless spells in given the recent points changes. I was thinking that Ulgu might have more options for artefacts as well.

    Allegiance: Seraphon
    Mortal Realm: Ulgu

    Leaders
    Slann Starmaster (260)
    - General
    - Trait: Vast Intellect
    - Artefact: Incandescent Rectrices
    - Spell: Stellar Tempest

    Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur (240)
    - Artefact: Dimensional Blade
    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Cold One (100)
    - Artefact: Sword of Judgement
    Engine of the Gods (240)
    Skink Starpriest (80)
    - Spell: Celestial Apotheosis
    Skink Starpriest (80)
    - Spell: Meteoric Convocation

    Battleline
    15 x Saurus Knights (240)
    - Lances
    15 x Saurus Knights (240)
    - Lances
    5 x Saurus Knights (80)
    - Lances

    Battalions
    Firelance Starhost (150)
    Dracothion's Tail (80)

    Endless Spells / Terrain
    Balewind Vortex (40)
    Chronomantic Cogs (80)
    Purple Sun of Shyish (50)
    Soulsnare Shackles (40)

    Total: 2000 / 2000
    Extra Command Points: 2
    Allies: 0 / 400
    Wounds: 114

    The DT battalion offers us a one-drop list and relatively cheap access to CPs.
    A key difference here is the Sword of Justice on the ScV CO. Stacking the OB's CA with the ScV's and Curse of Fates from the Slann ups the effectiveness quite a bit. With some back of envelope maths I got that you could be looking at 1.81d6 MW on a monster/hero. There are still the 3.62 -1 rend attacks from the war-pick with the other profiles on top.
    The OB's CA would also synergise with its own weapon profile allowing it to chew through high armour targets via the Dimensional Blade.
    The Celestial Apotheosis pick is to top up heroes between table rows. Additionally it adds to the bravery bomb from the knights.
    The usual endless spells are mostly to pick up extra magic capabilities and movement buffing. The Sun and Shackles are to mostly play mind games with the opponent to split up their forces to make the knights' lives easier.

    An alternative build I had for this list trades the Cogs, Sun, Shackles and a Starpriest for a ScV Carno. This makes better use of the CA for the saurus but I'm cautious about the impact on the biting attacks and magical presence. Ulgu does give us some relic choices which can help here at the cost of the Rectrices.

    With both there is a large reliance on the summoning to offer chaff to contest and screen without the aid of an AB. That and activation issues could hamper engagements.


    I've been mostly lurking so any and all advice is appreciated + any glaring mistakes.
    *edits to typos
     
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  11. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    @Satt Welcome to Lustria.

    I definitely recommend Great Remember for any DT list. The ability to LoSaT your Slann up field to deep strike DT battalion units and then LoSaT back to your cogs/screens is extremely valuable. Or to simply drop units off on multiple flanks of the enemy and/or objectives.

    Ulgu has some fantastic artifacts. My go to are Misamic Blade, Sword of Judgement, Betrayer's Crown (highly underrated), and Doppelgangers Cloak.
     
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  12. Satt
    Skink

    Satt New Member

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    Looking over the ScV CO ability it looks like CoF isn't that significant even with the OB's CA. The main other benefit that I could see from CoF is on the Slann to aid in Mystical Unforging's effect. GR on the Slann looks to be better for sure. I was thinking of maybe dropping the Retrices on the Slann for Spellmirror or the Trickster's Helm on the EotG. In any case I've got plenty of hobbying to do to mull it over with.

    Do you think the Betrayer's Crown is as competitive given access to Meteoric Convocation and Stellar Tempest? Does the Doppelgangers Cloak stay as relevant with the FAQ changes to "once per battle"?
     
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  13. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    Betrayer's Crown is still great due to army's that run multiple hordes. Dok, Skaven, LoN, and Fireslayers all should have multiple units over 30x. In a DT list this give you the chance to hit two units with a decent horde thinning ability to trigger multiple battleshocks. They will either have to blow their reserved/battalion CP to prevent more feeling or lose up to half their hordes all for the cost of a spell and artifact. Doppelgangers Cloak is my preferred artifact for the Oldblood Carno. Even though it is once a game, if played correctly it allows you to have up to three combats while being at full tier.
     
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