8th Ed. 600 pts vs. Ogres, Skinks FTW !!

[Shane]

Hey all,

I had my first game in a new campign starting up at a local store tonight. I played against Ogres and annihilated them! The best unit of the game (and ironically, the cheapest) was definitely my Skinks, taking down an Ogre with each of its volleys of double-shotted poisonous darts and making a unit of Ogres run twice in panic!! Below are the army lists, my inital list before improvements can be found here: http://www.lustria-online.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7741


LIZARDMEN ARMY:

HERO Saurus Scar-Veteran
Gambler's Armour
Bane Head
Great Weapon

CORE 14 Saurus Warriors
Full Command
Spears

CORE 10 Skink Skirmishers

SPECIAL 5 Cold-One Cavalry
Standard Bearer
Musician


OGRES ARMY (details sketchy):

HERO Flamebelcher

Level 2 Wizard

4 Ogre Bulls

4 Leadbelchers

1 Gorger



DEPLOYMENT:
He deployed first, Bulls on the left, Belchers on the right with the General in between. The terrain was set up with a forest in the middle to the left and a small building closer to my side on the right. My strategy was pick my battles by splitting his army up and to keep out of sight of the Belchers if I couldn't get them into combat early. The building on the right was too close to the table edge to get both infantry units around it towards the Leadbelchers, so I opted for the left flank. My saurus were on the extreme left, Cold-One Cav to their right and skinks the next over.

LIZARDMEN TURN 1:
I marched my units up in line with each other to the forest using it as cover from the Belchers, remaining out of sight of their guns whilst threatening the Bulls with both my Saurus block and Cold-One Cav.

OGRES TURN 1:
The Bulls try to charge my Cav but fail so the Fire-belcher joined their ranks. The Leadbelchers could just see around the forrest and took shots at my skinks, still covering the other units. All shots missed - thankyou to-hit modifiers I took a fireball on my Saurus block, taking out 2 or 3 models.

LIZARDMEN TURN 2:
The Cold-Ones failed their stupidity test and stumbled forward 3". Otherwise I may have attempted a charge, but instead I manouvred the Saurus next to them so either of them could get a flank charge on the Bulls if they got a charge off next turn. The skinks had a choice of shooting at the Leadbelchers on the right or the Bulls on the left. I thought the Bulls were more of a threat as they were staring down my other units, so I moved the skinks through the forrest to face them on the other side. They double-shotted, scoring 5 wounds(!), none saved. One Ogre down!

OGRES TURN 2:
The roll for the Gorger was low, so luckily he didn't join the battle this turn. The Bulls left their General behind, declaring a charge at the Stupid Cold-Ones and hit it. The impact hits didn't do much and we both struck at the same time. He did 4-5 wounds but my high armour saved all but two models. Re-gaining their senses, the Cold-Ones did one wound and the Saurus did 3-4(!). Another Ogre dropped and he had to take a break test at -4, failing and easily being run down by the Cav. A whole unit down for the price of two Cav! The Leadbelchers declared a charge on the skinks through the forest. I stood and shot, doing 3-4 wounds, taking down an Ogre. They panicked and fled from the little (but poisonous) skinks! The Ogre magic phase was uneventful, not making the casting cost on the first spell.

LIZARDMEN TURN 3:
I decide to turn the remaining Cold-One Cav towards the lone Fire-belching general and the Saurus block, who were also out of reach of the general, towards the fleeing Leadbelchers and started to chase them down, also getting away from table edges where the Gorger could appear. The Skinks turned towards the General and unleashed a volley of double-shotted, poisoned darts, doing 5 wounds! Luckily for the Ogre player, after some muttered expletives followed by a lot of pacing whilst shaking the dice in his hands (probably praying to the Ogre gods), he rolled the two saves neccessary to keep the General alive on 1 wound.

OGRES TURN 3:
The roll for the Gorger was better this time and he pops up right behind my Cav on the left hand side of the board. The Leadbelchers rally and move threateningly towards my Saurus block. The Fire-belcher manages to get off an upgraded Fireball, taking out 5 Saurus (not bad at all), who then pass their panic test and hold steady.

LIZARDMEN TURN 4:
With the Gorger looming at their backs, the Cold-One Cav charge at the general and make it comfortably. The Saurus block declare a charge at the Leadbelchers but don't make the large-ish roll required. With the General in combat, the Skinks turn their attention back to the Leadbelchers and fire off another volley, taking out another Ogre, who fail their panic test and run away from the pint-sized Skinks - AGAIN The Fire-blecher's breath weapon and combat rolls were abysmal and it doesn't manage to even hit them . The Cold-Ones didn't wound, but the 3 Saurus riders came through, scoring 3 wounds, more than enough to see the General taken out of the game. The Cav roll high on their over-run (as I had hoped, getting away from the Gorger) and get over close-ish to the fleeing Leadbelchers.

OGRES TURN 4:
The Leadbelchers fail their rally test and keep running. The Gorger charges the Skinks still in the forrest, who have their backs to him and so unable to shoot back as their reaction. The Skinks strike first but as good as they have been at range, they weren't able to score any wounds close up. The Gorger, on the other hand killed 3 Skinks, who would have failed a break check if not for the nearby General.

END:
The die roll to see if there would be another turn came up as a negative. If it had gone on, I suspect I would have been in good shape to mop up the rest of the Ogres, running down the Leadbelchers with the Cav and turning to face the Gorger with the remainder of my Saurus block.



OBSERVATIONS:

Skinks are freaking awesome. Poison shots are amazing, allowing this low-costing unit of 10 to be either directly or partially responsible for most of the Ogre Army's losses. Lucky rolls of 6's for the poison did play a role though.

The Cold-One Cav were hard-nuts, holding an Ogre charge (depleted by one model thanks to the Skinks) and striking back hard enough to make them panic and flee, then chasing them down. This and the over-run on the General were the only times their higher movement made a difference though. Its debatable as to whether their points was worth it over another Saurus block that could have done everything else just as well, though the high armour save and +1 weapon skill definitely made a difference in the combat.

My Saurus block, however, did seem a bit useless. It didn't get into combat (though this was because the Bulls made their charge against the Cav instead, who made short work of the Ogres), so for the whole game they pretty much wandered back and forth across the board and soaked up some fireballs from the Fire-belcher (which at least weren't cast on the Cav).

I was a little dissapointed that my kitted-up hero-eating Scar-Vet didn't get a chance to chomp any Ogre bones, let alone the General's, but maybe next time. Or I could mount him on a Cold-One for an extra hard hitting and mobile unit

My deployment plan seemed to work very well, splitting his units and allowing me to focus on one with both of my combat units and as it turned out, they didn't really need to swing their attention to the other unit as the Skinks already had it covered. However, overall I think I did benefit from some lucky rolling and some ordinary/sub-par rolling may have cost the Ogres player.



THE FINAL WRAP UP:

The Lizardmen won convincingly, taking out 500/600 points of Ogres (including the still fleeding Leadbelchers) with a loss of only 163-175/600 points, with no full units going down. This earned me some sweet, sweet honour points (though I would have had more if I had tome to paint my army- thanks uni...), 50 more points to play with in my next battle and my first win of the campaign

 

[dictator]

Great win! I'm very glad to see you are using cav at this stage. Saurus Cav seem to do better with less shooting around. I rarely field them in larger battles because of shooting. What will you do with the extra 50pts? Add another small unit of skinks to the list or beef up your saurus block for future games?

 

[Shane]

Yeah I thought so!

I played another game against Orcs + Goblins on Saturday and changed my list up a bit. I ended up dropping the Cav for this game and instead added two units of skinks and a salamander.

The skinks did well again, taking out some nasty squigs and fanatics before they could reach my saurus block, which left them in good stead (with the full unit left) against a Boar Boyz charge with their hero. Scar-Vet took out the Orc hero in a challenge and the spear wielding Saurus took out enough of the rest of the unit for them to fail their break test.

I did make another list that I could try another time that keeps the Cav and adds another unit of Skinks.

I was glad to beat the guy, cos I thought he was a bit of a tool. Even though I'm fairly new to WHFB, he tried to catch me out a few times. Once I forgot to declare a charge reaction for my Skinks and he just moved his unit in. I remembered a little later on, only for him to pretty much say too bad, game's moved on. Same thing with the Salamander. On the first turn it misfired and ate all three handlers. It ended up getting stupidity and not doing much, except for one turn when I passed the check but then forgot to shoot with it (and it had a great line of sight against the Boar Boyz). It turns out he knew this, only too happy to inform me (when it got to his turn) that I forgot and that it was too bad.

Don't know about you guys, but in a friendly kind of game and against a new player, this just seems a bit harsh. I thought it made the game neither fair nor fun.

 

[Syltaryn]

Some people are just tools, they just don't know it. Glad you got the win

 

[Zakharov]

That is not good behavior. Some people don't realise that it's just a game! Glad you beat him!

 

[totzro]

Great battle report, and glad that you beat that (pardon my french) prick!
I think a good sportsmanship makes a better game for everyone.
Good luck in the campaign and keep us updated!

 

[Shane]

Hey guys,

I thought I'd update this thread with some battle reports from other games I've played in the campaign. The points limit for the armies has gone up to 800 now and I'm still playing around with my list. Here's my most recent build:

HERO Saurus Scar-Veteran (General), w/light armour, great weapon,
HERO Skink Priest, w/Plaque of Tepok
CORE 19 Saurus Warriors, w/musician and standard bearer
CORE 10 Skink Skirmishers
SPECIAL 5 Chameleon Skinks
SPECIAL 5 Cold-One Cavalry, w/musician
RARE 1 Salamander Hunting Pack, w/additional handler

I've played the Ogres once more and again wiped the board with them. I've also played against the same guy's Dark Elf army and have struggled against them, losing two and drawing one, although one of the losses was very close.

OGRES:
This game was decided by one round of close combat. He set up with a big unit of 9 Bulls with a gut-magic Hero on one side and 4 of the great weapon wielding Ironguts on the other, with Gnobblar trappers in the middle. He marched them all forward. Having seen what my Skinks did to his army last time, he was keen to get rid of them, which ended up being good for me. I moved my Skinks into firing range of his units and hoped he would focus on them and not on my Saurus block or the Cold-One Cav that had wheeled around from facing the Ironguts towards the big block of Oges to support the Sauri. The Skinks didn't do as much damage this time, rolling low.

He took the bait and charged them next turn, thinking they would stand and shoot, but the Skinks fled to safety whilst the big 9 block was now perfectly positioned for a counter-charge to the flank next turn by my Saurus. The combat ended well for me, negating his ranks, flank charging and doing some wounds, especially with the Scar-Vet. Whilst the Cold-One Cav unfortunately were blocked from charging their other flank that turn, I set them up for it next turn in case the combat went on longer. This was another surprise for my opponent who expected me to charge them into his Ironguts, but I thought it would be better to have all my units fighting the one combat, rather than being divided.

Unfortunately for him, the bulls and hero ran and poor rolling meant he didn't get them back all game, even causing the Gnobblars to run off the board in panic as well. The Ironguts ran down another unit of Skinks and went off the board. I was chasing down the big unit for the rest of the game, expecting them to rally, so the Ironguts were left alone, except for the surviving Skinks who went to spray them with some darts. The result speaks for itself.


DARK ELVES 1 (600 pts):
I can't actually remember much of this game, save that it was close. He ended up winning by one about one model. From memory he had a unit of Corsairs with Sorceress and a unit of Cold-One Knights, though there may have been some Warriors with repeater crossbows. I remember breaking the Knights with my Saurus block and nearly made it to the unit with the Sorceress in. I'm pretty sure I lost the game on magic anyway, with the Sorceress and her block taking out Skink and Salamander units and about half of the Saurus. I resolved to take a Skink Priest in the 800pts round and see what it could do.


DARK ELVES 2 (800 pts):
The answer was not much. I rolled low on the Lore of Heavens, so I did some minor buffs and debuffs that didn't have a huge effect. He had taken the Corsairs out and put in a large unit of Warriors with repeater crossbows and a Hydra. I lost this game badly after a good start due to some silly mistakes in setting up my units, positioning them later and not knowing the rules well. There was quite a bit of terrain on the field, but the most notable was a large boulder in the middle. I used this as cover for my Saurus Warriors from the Repeater Crossbowers, lining them up instead against the Hydra and Cold-One Knights. At this point I had two Salamanders and two units of Skinks in my list and I put one of each on either side of the board, while setting the Chameleon Skinks up behind the boulder, which was handily in front of the Hydra.
I got first turn and jumped the Chameleon Skinks out of cover and pot-shotted the Hydra. I rolled really well and ended up doing something like 6 poisoned hits. He rolled poorly, saving one on armour and one on regeneration, leaving the Hydra with one wound Needless to say, he didn't like that too much. I held back with my Saurus and led a Skink unit up next to the boulder behind the Chameleons, hoping they'd be out of over-run territory if the Hydra went through the Chameleons. A Sally went up the flank towards the Knights and on the other side I used a forrest as cover to march some Skinks and a Salamander closer to the Crossbowers.

His turn followed and basically, it went downhil from here. The Sorceress and Crossbowers combined efforts to take out the Skinks and Salamander on their side of the board. On the positive side, it kept their attention from my Saurus block, but it still seems like a waste of units, especially seeing as they would have had cover from the boulder, forcing the Crossbowers to move in order to shoot. In hindsight, I think I should have set up my whole army on one or the other side. The Hydra charged the Chameleons, wanting revenge and I hoped to take the remaining wound off with a stand and shoot reaction. I ended up rolling low, him saving all wounds and the Chameleons got destroyed in combat. Unfortunately, the Hydra then over-ran into the Skink unit behind that I thought would have been out of the way. Hoping to avoid an over-run into my Saurus block, I pushed them forward, hoping to get them clear. Unfortunately, it wasn't far enough and the Hydra destoryed the Skinks and slammed into the Saurus. The Herders and the Hydra did quite a few wounds on the Saurus who returned with only a few wounds that were all saved with the nasty combination of high armour and regeneration. The Scar-Vet, however, managed to do the one unsaved wound required to slay it. The other player was sure that the Handlers stayed in combat at this point, but I've heard later on forums that they're removed with the Hydra once its slain. As things stood, the Handlers remained and we counted up combat resolution, with me losing by quite a lot, even though I'd slain the Hydra. I failed the break check and was run down with by the Handlers (which I thought was a bit stupid- two Dark Elves running down over half a unit of Saurus, including a Scar-Vet, but I'm told the break check isn't only meant to signify running down and slaying, but the unit scattering and hiding, which makes more sense). If I had known that the Handlers were removed from the game with a slain Hydra, the result may have been quite different, being able to have a crack at the Knights and then possibly making it to the Crossbowers. To add insult to injury, I had left my Skink Priest exposed and the Knights charged and ran him off the board. He ended up wiping me out comletely.


DARK ELVES 3 (800 pts):
This game went better for me. After suffering early casualties, with my Cold-One Cav taking a flank charge from his Knights and a hit from a Sorceress spell, I managed to pull it back to a draw. I managed to take the Hydra down to a few wounds left with a combination of Chameleon and regular Skink fire. His Sorceress took a wound from a Salamander and another from a miscast and died and I took out enough Knights and Crossbowers to get some points back. I had tried to isolate his Crossbowers again and concentrate infantry and Cav on his Knights first. When the Hydra was in trouble, I wheeled the Cav around towards it, using forrest as a cover from his Knights. Unfortunately, he risked the terrain check to charge through the forrest at my Cav, losing 2/5 Knights, but hitting my flank. The Sorceress used the Soul Stealer spell on them, able to cast in close combat and took out 2/5 of my Cav (after I foolishly tried to dispell a damage spell on my Skinks that were facing the Hydra, hoping to take it out next turn), putting the combat odds even more strongly in his favor. This one combat was my main weakness this time.

PONDERINGS:
I seem to be mis-firing way more than anyone should with my Salamanders and when I do, I inevitably also roll for them to chomp the max of 3 Skink handlers. So, overall, the Salamanders havn't been hugely effective. This is also because I havn't been able to get them into a good flanking position on a unit of troops, where they could cause mass casualties. Any tips?
I'm not sure how to play against this Dark Elf army effectively. I've been trying to take out his Hydra with Skinks before it can do serious damage, isolate his Crossbowers and hold back my main troops until a good time to strike. This hasn't seemed to work too well, though maybe its just a series of unfortunate mistakes that has been the deciding factor. I'm contemplating using Skink cover on my Saurus and Cav to try and get them in combat with the Crossbowers (and the Sorceress) as early as possible, but the Repeaters and the destructive Sorceress' magic have been pretty effective, so they may not make it across unscathed. If they do though, I'm sure they'd chew through the Elves, hatred or no. Any suggestions?
This thursday, the campiagn steps up to 1000 points. He's told me that his army is now even more brutal, so thats not very comforting I'm not sure what to do with my extra points. I'm fairly contrained model wise at the moment. I've got more in boxes, but have to construct them yet and don't have the time at the moment. At the moment I'm looking at another unit of Skinks, giving my Scar-Vet a ward save (was soooo close to dying in a small and unfinished match against Chaos) and making the Skink Priest a Level 2 with Plaque of Tepok and hoping for some decent spells. Not sure what to do with the other 75 odd points. Any suggestions on the army list?

Cheers!

 

[Moniker]

What seems to be essential with Salamanders when they're running about on their own is that extra 'snack.' Buying an extra handler for only 5pts means that if you roll bad on your misfire, you'll still have one skink left and he'll behave normally.