8th Ed. 8th Ed Lizardmen Rumor Army Breakdown (updated)

[Rikard]

Re: 8th Ed Lizardmen Rumor Army Breakdown

Saw this on warseer.

Oxyotl- Master Predator- if he did not move then shots made from the golden blowpipe of P'Toohee auto wound on a to hit roll of 5+. P'Toohee- range 12 S3 poisoned with multi shots (3)

Krog Gar- Hand of Gods has Shem's burning gaze as a bound spell power lever 3 (BOUND SPELLS FOR THE BOUND SPELL GOD). His Spear counts as a spear and all unsaved wounds count as 2 for combat res. His ward save is applied to Grymloq as well. (Grymloq does need a ward though) - seems almost like a word for word copy and paste from 7th ed with the exception of two rules.


Disciplines in order from cheapest to highest:
Reservoir of Eldritch Energy - Carry over one d6 from dispel phase to casting phase
Soul of Stone - Alter miscast table result up or down 1
Becalming Cogitation- re-rolls first failed dispel attempt in each magic phase.
Wandering Deliberations - Knows eight signature spells in addition to normally generated four
Harmonic Convergence - Channel 3 dice
The Harrowing Scrutiny - Terror
Transcendent Healing - Heal d3/d6 number of wounds
\Unfathomable Presence - MR3
Focus of Mystery - Loremaster High Magic
Higher State of Consciousness - Ethereal and Unstable

Apparently PF is more of a nerf than a bonus.

"A unit that contains one or more models with the predatory fighter rule can NOT test to restrain pursuit, unless there is a skink character within 6" of the unit."

Gor-Rok gets T6, gains immune to psychology and predatory fighter. Resilient lets him only take 1 wound against Killing blow, heroic killing blow, and mulitple wounds on a 2+. His Mace allows him to re-roll failed to hit rolls and he earns extra attacks from PF on 5s and 6s. His Shield gives him +2 to armor save and if charged- enemy models in base contact with you take dangerous terrain at -1.

Chakax is unchanged except he destroys random magic items on a 5+.

Tehenhauin is a Lv3 Beasts wizard, Poisoned attacks against him must always roll to wound. He upgrades all skinks and skink riders to have hatred to skaven for half a slave per model. has acane vassal. His tide of serpents is D6 at WS2 and S2 with poisoned attacks. He makes swarms that he joins unbreable and ignore their Squish! rule.

 

[chefsdad]

Re: 8th Ed Lizardmen Rumor Army Breakdown

Woah woah woah, wait....


Knows all sigs IN ADDITION to randomly generated spells!?


BS, surely? That's unbelievably cool if not!

 

[Mahtis]

Re: 8th Ed Lizardmen Rumor Army Breakdown

It's, as amazing as it's sounds, true I posted earlier today about what lore would be most suited for knowing 8 signatures + 4 generated spells. Personally I'd recon that death is a strong one, with the ability to channel direct damage spells (character snipes) through skink priests (and oracle?) and the possible extra power dice you get from the attribute

 

[chefsdad]

Re: 8th Ed Lizardmen Rumor Army Breakdown

Where did this come from??


Actually, scratch that, ill have the book in two days. Just a bit impatient

 

[sorrowquin]

Re: 8th Ed Lizardmen Rumor Army Breakdown

Gor-Rok actually sounds like a beast if those rules are to be true...
Plus I really like the model... I just hope hes not to pricey

 

[jgascoine011]

Re: 8th Ed Lizardmen Rumor Army Breakdown

I dont play lizardmen but i feel so sorry for you guys.

The release looks terrible. Not only did they nerf the slaan and salamanders (we all saw that coming though) but they made all the new things terrible (the bastilladon is maybe not too bad with the bound spell version).

Skrox became worthless. Ha, please take your S7 model, he will be dead wayyy before he gets to strike.

The new fenzy terradactlys. Seriously i cant see these guys having any use. Even if they charge into combat against their chosen unit they are dead. 2 wounds on a T3 model with at best a 3+ armour save. Yea please go for it.

Carny = crap

EotG. No more ignore armour saves? Ha, 2D6 S4 hits, please what a nerf.
Salamanders/Razordons are not as good.

Skinks will be spending the whole game running away.


Sorry but this book is just terrible. They had such a good oportunity to put out an amazing book and they failed hard. This from the guy that brought as Skaven, ogres, tau etc. I expected so much more

 

[The Hunted]

Re: 8th Ed Lizardmen Rumor Army Breakdown

I dont play lizardmen but i feel so sorry for you guys.

The release looks terrible. Not only did they nerf the slaan and salamanders (we all saw that coming though) but they made all the new things terrible (the bastilladon is maybe not too bad with the bound spell version).

Skrox became worthless. Ha, please take your S7 model, he will be dead wayyy before he gets to strike.

The new fenzy terradactlys. Seriously i cant see these guys having any use. Even if they charge into combat against their chosen unit they are dead. 2 wounds on a T3 model with at best a 3+ armour save. Yea please go for it.

Carny = crap

EotG. No more ignore armour saves? Ha, 2D6 S4 hits, please what a nerf.
Salamanders/Razordons are not as good.

Skinks will be spending the whole game running away.


Sorry but this book is just terrible. They had such a good oportunity to put out an amazing book and they failed hard. This from the guy that brought as Skaven, ogres, tau etc. I expected so much more

Skinks are running away the whole game anyway!

And let's just see how the book plays out. Ofcourse we have dreamed of a perfectly balanced book, and ofcourse, it's not perfect. But then again, what is?
We get some new units, our old units get a bit modified here and there...so I'm curious to see how
it will perform. I'm still hopefull!

The Hunted

 

[Darius the Insane]

Re: 8th Ed Lizardmen Rumor Army Breakdown

Not only did they nerf the slaan

Yeah the Slann got nerfed! Now he only knows 12 SPELLS! 4 randomly generated AND ALL 8 SIGNATURES! Yeah that really sucks

 

[jgascoine011]

Re: 8th Ed Lizardmen Rumor Army Breakdown

he can know 100 spells for all i care.
He isnt adding 1 dice to all his casting spells, bouncing miscasts on a 2+, holding up an entire unit all game with being etherial and stubborn (now he is unstable ), stopping me from casting spells, and all round general removed

Hi, please post like an adult, not a child. Thanks - Sammeh

Yea dont get me wrong, the slaan is still good, but not as good as b4. And honestly i think that is a good thing.

Its just everything else that sucks.
I know some people are going to be saying, wait hold on, lets give everything a try. But it not hard to work things out. PF gives an extra attack on a 6+ to hit. Lets say a horde of saurus with spears vs chaos warriors with shields. On average that PF kills less than 1 guy.
40 attacks, 20 hit with an extra 4 hits (if lucky) so 24 hit, 12 wound, 6 get through armour, and 5 or 4 dead after parry depending on if marked. In fact all PF does is make calculating the averages easier.

And then the ripperdactlys. What are the best at killing? High armour cav? Ok lets go vs chaos knights.
how about 6 chaos knights (with encorcelled) vs 6 rippers?
i hit 1st with 12 attacks 8 hits, 7 wound, 2 dead, and 1 on a wound. Then the horses. 6 attacks, 3 hits, 2 wounds. killing off the last ripper.
On average you are getting, 15 attacks, 7 hit, then another 4 hit = 11 hits. 6 wounds, of which 1 is kb and then if lucky another horse dies. So 6 wounds to 2. Ok you may be stead fast but you are Ld 5 ffs.

As a WoC player, i am looking forward to this release
Ok skirmiser skinks are going to be a pain, but everything else is a joke.

 

[chefsdad]

Re: 8th Ed Lizardmen Rumor Army Breakdown

I dont play lizardmen but i feel so sorry for you guys.

The release looks terrible. Not only did they nerf the slaan and salamanders (we all saw that coming though) but they made all the new things terrible (the bastilladon is maybe not too bad with the bound spell version).

Skrox became worthless. Ha, please take your S7 model, he will be dead wayyy before he gets to strike.

The new fenzy terradactlys. Seriously i cant see these guys having any use. Even if they charge into combat against their chosen unit they are dead. 2 wounds on a T3 model with at best a 3+ armour save. Yea please go for it.

Carny = crap

EotG. No more ignore armour saves? Ha, 2D6 S4 hits, please what a nerf.
Salamanders/Razordons are not as good.

Skinks will be spending the whole game running away.


Sorry but this book is just terrible. They had such a good oportunity to put out an amazing book and they failed hard. This from the guy that brought as Skaven, ogres, tau etc. I expected so much more

Saw this post on Warseer, almost word for word.

 

[GCPD]

Re: 8th Ed Lizardmen Rumor Army Breakdown

It doesn't mean the points he raised aren't valid.

The only justifiable nerfs were to the Slann and Salamanders. I really don't mind that. But the rest...

 

[chefsdad]

Re: 8th Ed Lizardmen Rumor Army Breakdown

Slann was powerful, skink cloud was powerful. If all this information is true, then this has been addressed.

Carnosaur is the same, so no one can complain that got nerfed (yes its up 10 points, but their riders are cheaper).

Engine is worse, but a lot cheaper (i still thought it was awful in the current book). Both stegs more viable with D3 wounds now (and cheaper).

PF has a downside that can be mitigated.



All in all, i'm really looking forward to it.

 

[jgascoine011]

Re: 8th Ed Lizardmen Rumor Army Breakdown

I dont play lizardmen but i feel so sorry for you guys.

The release looks terrible. Not only did they nerf the slaan and salamanders (we all saw that coming though) but they made all the new things terrible (the bastilladon is maybe not too bad with the bound spell version).

Skrox became worthless. Ha, please take your S7 model, he will be dead wayyy before he gets to strike.

The new fenzy terradactlys. Seriously i cant see these guys having any use. Even if they charge into combat against their chosen unit they are dead. 2 wounds on a T3 model with at best a 3+ armour save. Yea please go for it.

Carny = crap

EotG. No more ignore armour saves? Ha, 2D6 S4 hits, please what a nerf.
Salamanders/Razordons are not as good.

Skinks will be spending the whole game running away.


Sorry but this book is just terrible. They had such a good oportunity to put out an amazing book and they failed hard. This from the guy that brought as Skaven, ogres, tau etc. I expected so much more

Saw this post on Warseer, almost word for word.

Hahaha, really?
Great minds must think alike

 

[jgascoine011]

Re: 8th Ed Lizardmen Rumor Army Breakdown

Slann was powerful, skink cloud was powerful. If all this information is true, then this has been addressed.

Carnosaur is the same, so no one can complain that got nerfed (yes its up 10 points, but their riders are cheaper).

Engine is worse, but a lot cheaper (i still thought it was awful in the current book). Both stegs more viable with D3 wounds now (and cheaper).

PF has a downside that can be mitigated.



All in all, i'm really looking forward to it.

Skink cloud was never OP. You generally had 9 S6 attacks along with 6 S2 (3?) attacks. The kroxigor would kill a couple models but those skinks died in droves.

Carny: When was it ever used. So why put the points up? To make it usefull, make it T6 with 3+ armour for 200 points and you have fixed half of its problems.

Engine: yes it was not as effective in 8th as it was in 7th (but in 7th it was just OP). So instead of just making it even more redundant make it good. Hell make burning alignment 2D6 S4 hits or D6 S4 hits no armour saves. Ok the MW thing is good but its still pretty usless once its in combat now.


All i am saying is that they nerfed the things that didnt need nerfed. Normally GW does this to make us buy new models (e.g. chaos warriors where the marauders and well chaos warriors got nerfed so we would buy chariots.

 

[GCPD]

Re: 8th Ed Lizardmen Rumor Army Breakdown

Slann was powerful, skink cloud was powerful. If all this information is true, then this has been addressed.

Carnosaur is the same, so no one can complain that got nerfed (yes its up 10 points, but their riders are cheaper).

Engine is worse, but a lot cheaper (i still thought it was awful in the current book). Both stegs more viable with D3 wounds now (and cheaper).

PF has a downside that can be mitigated.



All in all, i'm really looking forward to it.

Actually the cloud hasn't been addressed at all. As you now have to spend 25% on skirmishers or frenzybait saurus, the former is probably more reliable. I'm expecting most armies to field oone or two blocks of saurus and as much skink skirmishers to get up to 25%

 

[Arli]

Re: 8th Ed Lizardmen Rumor Army Breakdown

I do not see much changing in my builds. I usually take one unit of saurus (about25). Then fill the rest of the core up with skrox and skirmishers to the minimum. Then fill out the special and rare.

Hell, I have enough skinks to field all skinks or Skrox even. I really like having poison on a skink unit in CC. I do not mind feeding them to something in a game.

 

[chefsdad]

Re: 8th Ed Lizardmen Rumor Army Breakdown

Slann was powerful, skink cloud was powerful. If all this information is true, then this has been addressed.

Carnosaur is the same, so no one can complain that got nerfed (yes its up 10 points, but their riders are cheaper).

Engine is worse, but a lot cheaper (i still thought it was awful in the current book). Both stegs more viable with D3 wounds now (and cheaper).

PF has a downside that can be mitigated.



All in all, i'm really looking forward to it.

Actually the cloud hasn't been addressed at all. As you now have to spend 25% on skirmishers or frenzybait saurus, the former is probably more reliable. I'm expecting most armies to field oone or two blocks of saurus and as much skink skirmishers to get up to 25%

The drop in leadership means that skinks and terradons can't operate solo as well as they could, as if the run out of general range, there's less chance they'll rally.

Think we're looking at a combined arms army here, similar to daemons and high elves.

 

[jgascoine011]

Re: 8th Ed Lizardmen Rumor Army Breakdown

Actually the cloud hasn't been addressed at all. As you now have to spend 25% on skirmishers or frenzybait saurus, the former is probably more reliable. I'm expecting most armies to field oone or two blocks of saurus and as much skink skirmishers to get up to 25%

You can now hit the kroxigor in the skink unit. Meaning when my chaos knights/chariots/skull crushers/whatever else hits the skrox unit, instead of getting banged on the head by a giant crocodile and not being able to do anything about it, they will now just hit and kill the crox.

As for the slight downside of PF, i actually dont think its that bad, its not a forced over run, just a forced pursue. Its the fact the its not really an upside too. Its just ridiculous really.

Anyway i think we can all be thankfull that they didnt make them like demons where you have to spend literally 1 hour setting them up (esp in 40k), rolling for random items, forgetitng who has what random item and just being more of pain in the ass than it is worth

 

[chefsdad]

Re: 8th Ed Lizardmen Rumor Army Breakdown

Actually the cloud hasn't been addressed at all. As you now have to spend 25% on skirmishers or frenzybait saurus, the former is probably more reliable. I'm expecting most armies to field oone or two blocks of saurus and as much skink skirmishers to get up to 25%

You can now hit the kroxigor in the skink unit. Meaning when my chaos knights/chariots/skull crushers/whatever else hits the skrox unit, instead of getting banged on the head by a giant crocodile and not being able to do anything about it, they will now just hit and kill the crox.

As for the slight downside of PF, i actually dont think its that bad, its not a forced over run, just a forced pursue. Its the fact the its not really an upside too. Its just ridiculous really.

Anyway i think we can all be thankfull that they didnt make them like demons where you have to spend literally 1 hour setting them up (esp in 40k), rolling for random items, forgetitng who has what random item and just being more of pain in the ass than it is worth

I'm not talking about Skrox, that is indeed a nerf (though still think theyre usable, if a little more fragile).

I'm talking about maxed skirmishers and 10 million poisoned shots. I think of the LD has gone down on skinks then that's reigned it in a bit.

 

[Clarkarias]

Re: 8th Ed Lizardmen Rumor Army Breakdown

I'm looking forward to brining my Slann who channels 3 times with the Channelling Staff. That should be fun! That at least should get an average of one extra die per turn.

I look forward to madly working on lists.