8th Ed. 8th Ed Lizardmen Rumor Army Breakdown (updated)

[chefsdad]

Re: 8th Ed Lizardmen Rumor Army Breakdown

I'm looking forward to brining my Slann who channels 3 times with the Channelling Staff. That should be fun! That at least should get an average of one extra die per turn.

I look forward to madly working on lists.

Ditto! Very tempted to grab some gribblies too and throw them into some lists!

 

[Slanputin]

Re: 8th Ed Lizardmen Rumor Army Breakdown

Very tempted to grab some gribblies too and throw them into some lists!

What are Gribblies?

 

[chefsdad]

Re: 8th Ed Lizardmen Rumor Army Breakdown

Very tempted to grab some gribblies too and throw them into some lists!

What are Gribblies?

Gribblies = anything big - stegs, trogs, bastiladons, daemon princes, slaughterbrutes, stonehorns etc.

 

[Clarkarias]

Re: 8th Ed Lizardmen Rumor Army Breakdown

Apparently PF is more of a nerf than a bonus.

"A unit that contains one or more models with the predatory fighter rule can NOT test to restrain pursuit, unless there is a skink character within 6" of the unit."

Finally a reason to use a Skink Chief! I think I may include one on a Terradon to follow my Saurus units around and give some late game war machine charges.

 

[Lizardmatt]

Re: 8th Ed Lizardmen Rumor Army Breakdown

I'm not that worried about skrox units.
Krox aren't all that easy to kill.
5 Frenzied chaos knights going in and dumping all attacks onto krox average less than 6 wounds.
Krox swinging back do 2 to 3 wounds.
Stand and fire averages .25 kills, skink attacks are good for another .25 kills.
If krox get stomp, and/or PF then even elite knights are in trouble.

As for PF forcing pursuit, that's just 1 more reason to take spears. A 6x4 block gets 18 to 24 attacks. That's enough to sweep away most chaff and leave nobody to chase.
If you charge in, yeah, I'll have to chase; but I'm chasing on your turn. On my turn I'm free to reform.
Being forced to pursue, isn't nearly as bad as also being forced to over-run.

As for the slaan, I laugh at chaos players who think it's a tone down. My Slaan will ALWAYS have the metal signature spell, either because he knows all 8 signature spells, or because I cast any spell from high magic and swapped it for the metal signature. Chaos is going to be less happy when slaan and skinks first throw a 2D6/4D6 flaming magic missile at the chimera and then swap it out for the Searing Doom.
With the channel ability and the shift dispel to power die items, lizardmen are still coming in with a solid magic phase.

Finally, the ripper vs knight match up is a bit flawed. The flying cav will be gunning for warmachines and flank charges. The idea target is not going face first into chaos knights. They have more than enough speed and ability to not do that.

 

[GCPD]

Re: 8th Ed Lizardmen Rumor Army Breakdown

I'm not that worried about skrox units.
Krox aren't all that easy to kill.
5 Frenzied chaos knights going in and dumping all attacks onto krox average less than 6 wounds.
Krox swinging back do 2 to 3 wounds.
Stand and fire averages .25 kills, skink attacks are good for another .25 kills.
If krox get stomp, and/or PF then even elite knights are in trouble.

Finally, the ripper vs knight match up is a bit flawed. The flying cav will be gunning for warmachines and flank charges. The idea target is not going face first into chaos knights. They have more than enough speed and ability to not do that.

Better check your numbers there. 6 wounds is two dead Kroxigor. Unless you've brought 4, you're only averaging 1.5 wounds back from the survivor, which goes to 0.5 after saves.

Even 2 suirviving Kroxigor only give you roughly 2 wounds after saves.

In any case, nobody uses Frenzied Chaos Knights. They use Skullcrushers instead, which don't lose any models, massacre the Kroxigor, stomp the Skinks, and run the unit down.

I have to ask: why are you using Ripperdactyls to hunt warmachines, which will have a 50% chance to fail a Frenzy test outside teh General BSB bubble, when you could be using Terradons and Chameleon Skinks for significantly reduced price?

 

[Qupakoco]

Re: 8th Ed Lizardmen Rumor Army Breakdown

This thread was pretty positive until the Chaos player showed up, haha.

As for the slaan, I laugh at chaos players who think it's a tone down. My Slaan will ALWAYS have the metal signature spell, either because he knows all 8 signature spells, or because I cast any spell from high magic and swapped it for the metal signature.

Literally made me LOL.

 

[sorrowquin]

Re: 8th Ed Lizardmen Rumor Army Breakdown

I really like your points matt. I'm also ver curious about the new Slann. It will be different, yes, but to me theres still a lot of potential in all the new changes!

I'm also absolutely looking forward to try out some mean swarm business. If the rumor about swarms giving poison to every unit engaged in the same combat... to me that sounds huge! Throw in a nasty Basti at the flank of your Saurus, that can't be flank or rear charged mixed with some swarms... not to mention the Beast Shaman lurking behind them! Awesomeness!!

 

[Divinor]

I've added some minor info but since the book hits tomorrow, it will be the last update.

I've been toying with a few lists and I must say... those points go quickly! My old list definitely got cheaper, but only enough for me to add in a skink chief to keep my Saurus in check =(.

Some ideas I have been tossing around:

- Old Blood on Cold One, 2 (or 3) Beast priests (Briests?), Horn Of Kygor + large unit of cold one cav. Use the beast sig (cast at a 9) to get those dudes buffed and go to town. Hit the horn when you need a little extra boost.

- Scroll + Cube + Save on dice from dispel pool to add to power pool. Also, the triple channel + channeling rod sounds fun too.

- Lore of Light Slann + Initiative Buff Bastiladon. Getting rerolls to hit sounds like it will be pretty awesome with PF and Poison. '

Anything you guys have thought of?

 

[olderplayer]

Might updtate the slann discipline list as follows:
Slann Disciplines in order from cheapest to highest:
Reservoir of Eldritch Energy- Can save 1 unused dispel die to use for the next magic phase on a D6 roll of 2+ ( can't go beyond the pool limit.)
Soul of Stone- When rolling a miscast you can add or subtract 1 from the result instead of accepting the original result(min. 2 and max. 12 on the table.)
Becalming Cogitation- re-rolls first failed dispel attempt in each magic phase.
Wandering Deliberations- Knows all basic lore signature spells ( can't be used with the Lore Master of High Magic one.)
Harmonic Convergence- Slann rolls 2 additional dice whenever he attempts to channel power or dispel dice.
The Harrowing Scrutiny- Terror
Transcendent Healing- 40K Regeneration [what does that mean? I assume this is the previously mentioned ability to recover lost wounds on the Slann; someone explained: "Roll a number of D6s equal to the difference between your current wounds and starting wounds. For each 6 you recover a single wound lost earlier in the battle. This happens at the end of your magic phase if the model is alive." If so, that seems pretty useful.]
Unfathomable Presence- Roll a D3 at the start of enemy magic phase, gains Magic resistance (X) until end of turn where X is equal to the D3 result.
Focus of Mystery- Lore Master for High Magic
Higher State of Consiciousness- Ethereal and Unstable but can't join units.

 

[Divinor]

Will do. Thanks!

 

[Lizardmatt]

Re: 8th Ed Lizardmen Rumor Army Breakdown

I'm not that worried about skrox units.
Krox aren't all that easy to kill.
5 Frenzied chaos knights going in and dumping all attacks onto krox average less than 6 wounds.
Krox swinging back do 2 to 3 wounds.
Stand and fire averages .25 kills, skink attacks are good for another .25 kills.
If krox get stomp, and/or PF then even elite knights are in trouble.

Finally, the ripper vs knight match up is a bit flawed. The flying cav will be gunning for warmachines and flank charges. The idea target is not going face first into chaos knights. They have more than enough speed and ability to not do that.

Better check your numbers there. 6 wounds is two dead Kroxigor. Unless you've brought 4, you're only averaging 1.5 wounds back from the survivor, which goes to 0.5 after saves.

I do run my Skrox units with 4 or 5 kroxigor (usually 4).
Frenzied knights average 5.5 wounds, which as I said, less than 6. So more often than not, you've got 3 krox swinging back.

Not having core stand up to Skull Crushers is nothing new, very little stands up to skull crushers.
What is great against skull crushers is having ~3 wizards with the Lore of Metal Signature Spell; or having dirt cheap T5 heroes with 1+ armor, S6 attacks and bonus attacks. Equal points of mounted Scarvets will beat the skull crushers face in.
2 Scar vets are cheaper than a minimum skull crusher unit. SC hit on 4's, wound on 4's, and the Svets save on 3+. Being cav, no stomp for you. Scar vets hit back on 4's, wound on 3's, and Skullcrush save on 4. Mounts throw in another 4 S4 attacks. Predatory Fighter means each 6 to hit is another S6 attack.
The dual Scarvets are just under 2 wounds a turn (1.94 average) while the skull crushers ring in at a solid 0.5 wounds per turn.
Point for Point, the Scar Vets is a steal, and deals enough damage to be a serious threat to everything.

-Matt

 

[GCPD]

I have to agree with you on Scar-Vets. I honestly don't know how they got away with a points decrease and no changes to any stats. But frankly, from what I've seen, points values are all over the place in this book.

4 Kroxigor might well be the way to go now. I'm still of the opinion that they aren't balanced at their points value when you are writing 2 off. If a Kroxigor has to die before another Kroxigor attacks, then you've got 100 point Kroxigors with 6 wounds and 3 attacks.

 

[Caneghem]

I have to agree with you on Scar-Vets. I honestly don't know how they got away with a points decrease and no changes to any stats. But frankly, from what I've seen, points values are all over the place in this book.

4 Kroxigor might well be the way to go now. I'm still of the opinion that they aren't balanced at their points value when you are writing 2 off. If a Kroxigor has to die before another Kroxigor attacks, then you've got 100 point Kroxigors with 6 wounds and 3 attacks.

Seems to me like Skrox had better have Stegadon bodyguards, to scare the crap out of monstrous cav and infantry with their D3 wounding impact hits.

I think Skrox are going to go back to the niche they fell into towards the beginning of the 7th ed book. Back before 8th edition shook things up, skrox were often run as small support units, with maybe 1 or 2 kroxigors and no command. Of course, the idea behind that was getting the charge off with M6 so that the krox could strike first... Maybe we need to start thinking about the Kroxigor as a way to simply boost the leadership of a little detachment unit?

Also if you think about it, if you really wanted to tailor a unit for fighting big tough monsters, you could upgrade to poison attacks. Obviously in that case the kroxigor might just be the token squad leader for his Ld.

I think huge units of skrox will be a thing of the past, but they'll move to a very support-style role.

 

[GCPD]

As I addressed in the other thread, there's no way I'm increasing the cost of Skink Cohorts by 33% for 1-2 poisoned hits a turn. No way.

I guess you could run them that way as hammers to a Saurus anvil. You need 8 Skinks for each Kroxigor, though. So with two Kroxigor you're either very wide on the frontage, or very deep. And its not that much cheaper than a Stegadon, with a much more useable footprint.

Unless you broke them up into units of 8 Skinks and 1 Kroxigor. Oh but the minimum unit size is probably 10 still. Something like this?

SSSS
SKKS
SKKS
*SS*


I don't know, maybe the Skroxigor dart is the way forward. I think if the Skinks had come down in points as rumoured it would be, but at their current cost 110 points seems a lot when you're going to want two or three....

 

[Caneghem]

As I addressed in the other thread, there's no way I'm increasing the cost of Skink Cohorts by 33% for 1-2 poisoned hits a turn. No way.

I guess you could run them that way as hammers to a Saurus anvil. You need 8 Skinks for each Kroxigor, though. So with two Kroxigor you're either very wide on the frontage, or very deep. And its not that much cheaper than a Stegadon, with a much more useable footprint.

Unless you broke them up into units of 8 Skinks and 1 Kroxigor. Oh but the minimum unit size is probably 10 still. Something like this?

SSSS
SKKS
SKKS
*SS*


I don't know, maybe the Skroxigor dart is the way forward. I think if the Skinks had come down in points as rumoured it would be, but at their current cost 110 points seems a lot when you're going to want two or three....

The melee poison doesn't seem like a huge point sink if you compare them to old skinks. 5 pts per cohort skink currently, in the new book 6 points per skink gets the same guy with -1 Ld, +1 armor and melee poison. A kroxigor unit leader mitigates the Ld penalty (until he dies). I could see my core being a largish unit of spear saurus, 2-3 mini skrox units, and some skirmishers.

I totally agree though, for larger cohort or skrox units, 4 points per model is the way forward. Of course, that's assuming you can think of a reason to take a large skrox unit anyway.

 

[GCPD]

I was under the impression that Skink points haven't actually changed at all. Even if they had, +2 for poison is still too much.

 

[Qupakoco]

How about...

50 Skinks, Full Command, Poison

with

Scar-Vet
BSB
LA
Shield
Dragonhelm
Dawnstone

and

Beast Priest nearby

Could be fun? That's a lot of points to sink into a tarpit though. 350+ just for the Skinks.

 

[GCPD]

Yeah, I think I'd rather do it with HW&S Saurus to be honest.

 

[Qupakoco]

Agreed. And if you really want poison you can just keep a swarm nearby. Though I guess it's 2 swarm minimum so that kinda sucks.