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9th Age 9th Age (beta) out now - check link in first post

Discussion in 'Lizardmen Discussion' started by Pinktaco, Sep 8, 2015.

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  1. Pinktaco
    Skar-Veteran

    Pinktaco Vessel of the Old Ones Staff Member

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    Everybody gets a hard-on for hating on the new attribute. I get it - it's not the old attribute and compared to that it's inferior, however, it becomes very potent on our guys.

    Consider this - with the bastiladon nearby a templeguard unit now have improved offensive capabilities (rerolls) and defensive agaisnt many elite units (WS5 vs WS5) so we take less wounds. Templeguards are stubborn with the frog, but at 7 wide they can remove 10 elite elves a turn. Mean while white lions will likely do the same back to us. Previously our guards couldn't keep up and would straight up lose, but now they actually have a fighting chance. Fair enough we added a 90pts buff wagon, but that monster can both stomp on elves and buff other units so it's not a straight up TG-only support car. Anyway point being that if we also have several protection counters we can safely ignore several wounds and maybe be lucky and out-rank an opponent and thus win combat first turn and run them down. Wish-listing of course.

    Also the ward spell do grant 5+ ward on a unit and +1 on other units that already have a ward. One of the developers confirmed that.

    With that said I'd say S5 on the bast would be appropriate. It wouldn't do jacksh1t with it's lousy 3A, but at least the stomps would actually be worth something. I don't think it's completely unreasonable since it'll still mainly be a buff wagon, which was the goal to begin with.

    Anyway my proposal for el trogo-rocco:

    Improve attack by 1.
    Spit should be a small template that scatter D6 or so.
    Spit could be S3 AP6.
    Roar should give frenzy to one unit within 12-18".
    Give it a bound spell from lore of high magic or light (doesn't Oracle sound like someone would would come from one of those?).

    I think all of that is fitting and much more valuable without being downright OP.


    Concerning TGs it's not about hating on them from my perspective, I just like options. Allowing HW/S is easily doable since we can easily acquire sword arms and it allow for some diversity. WS4/5, T4 and AS4+ could be a handy tanky unit. Give AP banner and they can still bring down some units and the unit would be cheaper than normally.
     
    Pinktaco, Sep 12, 2015
    #141
  2. ASSASSIN_NR_1
    Carnasaur

    ASSASSIN_NR_1 Well-Known Member

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    I'd rather they made the bound spells unique, I liked that they weren't just copies of spells from the lores/paths, it made it more interesting and gave something extra to the model. The (Shem's) burning gaze is alright but it is a little boring. Like when Kroq-Gar got the spell with his Hand Of The Gods, that was a bit dissapointing (for me at least) compared to how it had been in 7th edition army book.
     
    ASSASSIN_NR_1, Sep 12, 2015
    #142
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  3. Mr Phat
    Skink Chief

    Mr Phat 9th Age Army Support

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    Did I come of like that? I love it!
    I always envied high elves for it!
    Its BEAST on a TG star!

    This I dont like
    This I do

    A frenzy roar makes perfect sense.
    High or Light does not, to me at least.
    Remember the Oracle is bound to Sotek, which is affiliated with beasts.
    Maybe the Trog should know "Inner rage" from path of beasts each turn (gives a unit frenzy)
     
    Mr Phat, Sep 12, 2015
    #143
  4. ASSASSIN_NR_1
    Carnasaur

    ASSASSIN_NR_1 Well-Known Member

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    Oh and by the way, why is it that most of our units have lost Fear or Terror? The Troglodon doesn't cause terror and neither does the Stegadon, and the Kroxigor does'nt cause Fear, what could the reasoning be behind that?
     
    ASSASSIN_NR_1, Sep 12, 2015
    #144
  5. ASSASSIN_NR_1
    Carnasaur

    ASSASSIN_NR_1 Well-Known Member

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    It could work like the Bastiladons buff or maybe the Jungle swarms.
     
    ASSASSIN_NR_1, Sep 12, 2015
    #145
  6. Pinktaco
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    Pinktaco Vessel of the Old Ones Staff Member

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    not a lot of units have fear anymore. The undeads lost most as well.
     
    Pinktaco, Sep 12, 2015
    #146
  7. Pinktaco
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    Pinktaco Vessel of the Old Ones Staff Member

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    Fair enough I put that wrong - most people hate it. I don't mind it. :p
    If the oracle is affiliated with beasts why not Frenzy on 1 unit as a roar (1 time use maybe?) and wyssans wildform as a bound spell?

    Or something entirely different as el assasin suggested.
     
    Pinktaco, Sep 12, 2015
    #147
  8. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Agreed. The Bastiladon is there as a support monster (a dino buff-wagon!). There is no point in trying to turn it into another stegadon.
    The only fault I see in the changes to the Bastiladon is that it is probably too powerful for its points cost. Too much of an auto-include.
    Essence of the Freemind is far to expensive for what it does. That's your entire magic item allotment right there.

    The old attribute is fun and unique, the new one is not. I agree that the new attribute can be very useful, but we lost a little bit of fluff and flavour (or more accurately had that fluff/flavour was transferred to our disciplines which we can only have one of).

    The bastiladon is already bordering on being broken, I can see no justification in making it even better.
     
    NIGHTBRINGER, Sep 12, 2015
    #148
  9. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    That's a really great point. I think the intention of the authors is showing through a bit. I speculate that they are creating these rules with tournament play in mind. The goal seems to be to create a more balanced and streamlined game, but perhaps at the cost of some of the fluff and flavour.
     
    NIGHTBRINGER, Sep 12, 2015
    #149
  10. Yrtomin
    Saurus

    Yrtomin Member

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    I think you underestimate the power of being able to choose the lore, and with all lores generally becoming better its even more nice. You will always get 5 spells in a lore, meaning you pretty much always get the spells you want.
     
    Yrtomin, Sep 12, 2015
    #150
  11. Pinktaco
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    Pinktaco Vessel of the Old Ones Staff Member

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    The bastiladon is already bordering on being broken, I can see no justification in making it even better.

    Just ramp up the price until it fits the bill.

    *EDIT*

    Just to be clear - the empire buff wagon have both +1PD and +1 To Hit at 140pts. We get +1WS at 90pts and a monster that cannot fight.

    For all I care the monste can come in at 100pts with no engine on it an both engines to cost 20-30pts (chose just one). So either you just have a cheap S5 thunderstomp or you can pay extra and have some good buffs.

    **Second edit**

    Also there appear to be a clear focus on bringing points down on medium monsters.
    1) TK Scorpion at 75pts with WS4/S5/T5/4A, KB, poison and MR2.
    2) Varghult at 110pts with WS5/S6/T4/A5, hatred and regen.
    3) Gorgers at 80pts with WS3/S5/T5/A4, frenzy, killingblow and unbreakable.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2015
    Pinktaco, Sep 12, 2015
    #151
  12. Pinktaco
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    Well previously we payed 35pts for 8 high magic spells with the opportunity to gain other spells via the attribute :p
     
    Pinktaco, Sep 12, 2015
    #152
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  13. skink chief
    Kroxigor

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    I would very much like the option at least given that I have 3 of them....
     
    skink chief, Sep 12, 2015
    #153
  14. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    It's nice to have, but not at a price tag of 135 points. You're better off picking a lore that compliments your army and saving yourself all those points.
     
    NIGHTBRINGER, Sep 12, 2015
    #154
  15. Mr Phat
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    Mr Phat 9th Age Army Support

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    Well, you can get it as a diciplin now you know...so you have both ;)

    ...not sure why you would want that though...seems semi useless on 4 spells.
     
    Mr Phat, Sep 12, 2015
    #155
  16. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    That's a 50 point differential between the two and the Arcane Altar is far more vulnerable than our Bastiladon.

    Although I wouldn't mind have +1 to hit for our Kroxigors!
     
    NIGHTBRINGER, Sep 12, 2015
    #156
  17. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Except we can only have a single discipline so it isn't worth it at all.

    You're right about the limited use of our old attribute with only 4 spells. I'm comparing the high lore from 8th (with loremaster) to the path of valor of 9th age. The purpose is to weigh the two game systems against one another and in that endeavor our old lore + attribute was more fun, fluffy and strategically orientated then this new version.
     
    NIGHTBRINGER, Sep 12, 2015
    #157
  18. Pinktaco
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    Pinktaco Vessel of the Old Ones Staff Member

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    You know I never argued our bastiladon shouldn't be increased in price, all I'm saying is that we can have both good augments and a decent thunderstomp if priced correctly :)
     
    Pinktaco, Sep 12, 2015
    #158
  19. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Pretty much anything can be done if priced correctly. I'd rather have it cheaper and more "buff-wagon" specialized than go down the route of creating a mini Stegadon.
     
    NIGHTBRINGER, Sep 12, 2015
    #159
  20. Pinktaco
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    Pinktaco Vessel of the Old Ones Staff Member

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    except that it wouldn't be <.<

    Stegadon is currently S6/T6 and have a ridiculous impact hit (once upgraded) and can shoot with either the blowpipes or bolt thrower.

    Ton of difference xD
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2015
    Pinktaco, Sep 12, 2015
    #160
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