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AoS A few Death questions

Discussion in 'Rules Help' started by Aginor, Apr 10, 2017.

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  1. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning Staff Member

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    Hey y'all!

    As you might now I am planning to start a second army, mainly for laughs but also to paint and play something really different for a change. My focus will stay on Seraphon, but Something about Skeleton hordes intrigues me, so when my friend suggested that we build an army together, and that he likes ghosts, I thought "HELL YEAH, DEATHRATTLE FOR ME!!" (leaving the Malignants for him, which are also pretty nice actually).

    I have a few questions though, so if you know something about Death, please take a look! :)

    1. About Allegiance: Black Knights are Battleline if you have Deathrattle Allegiance. Arkhan the Black and Necromancers are NOT Deathrattle though, but "Deathlords" and "Deathmages" respectively. Do they break allegiance? And if they don't: Where does that rule come from? Are Deathlords and Deathmages kinda wildcards for Death? I don't get it. IMO running a Death army without a Deathlord or a Deathmage is pretty pointless.
    Same for a Zombie Dragon or Terrorgheist. Not many keywords there.

    2. I still wonder about Mantic vs. GW Skeletons. Half the price sounds good... I am searching for a picture comparison where someone painted them in the same style, to see how it looks. Do you have some?

    3. Which one is scarier: Zombie Dragon or Terrorgheist? And why? I tend to say the latter because it doesn't explode. :D

    4. Would you say this (completely fictional, I don't intend to buy that much stuff yet) 2000pt list is scary or not? Reasons please.


    Allegiance: Deathrattle

    Leaders
    Arkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament
    (340)
    Necromancer (120)
    Wight King with Baleful Tomb Blade (120)
    - General
    - Trait: Ruler of the Night


    Battleline
    40 x Skeleton Warriors
    (320)
    - Ancient Spear & Shield
    40 x Skeleton Warriors (320)
    - Ancient Spear & Shield
    40 x Skeleton Warriors (320)
    - Ancient Spear & Shield
    10 x Black Knights (240)
    - Deathrattle Battleline

    Units
    10 x Grave Guard
    (160)
    - Wight Blades & Crypt Shields

    Battalions
    Legion of Death
    (60)

    Total: 2000/2000


    As said before I will aim for something smaller, but the idea is a load of Skellies (provided I enjoy painting them, I mean: Thats 120 of those guys... :D), starting with this list (Starterbox plus a few others.) to have 1000pt (yes, actually 1020pt but you get what I mean):


    Allegiance: Deathrattle

    Leaders
    Arkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament
    (340)
    Necromancer (120)
    Wight King with Baleful Tomb Blade (120)
    - General
    - Trait: Ruler of the Night


    Battleline
    40 x Skeleton Warriors
    (320)
    - Ancient Spear & Shield
    5 x Black Knights (120)
    - Deathrattle Battleline

    Total: 1020/1000
     
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  2. Bowser
    Slann

    Bowser Third Spawning

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    Death Rattle and Death lords are two different factions. So you can't have the black knights as battleline with a deathlord hero. Terrorgheist all the way. Death shriek is great, just tougher, healing factor and lots of damage output. That 2k list is pretty badass!
     
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  3. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning Staff Member

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    Ok.... huh... What about Deathmages?
    Necromancer + Skellies = Deathrattle broken? Is there any unit that can summon in Deathrattle instead?
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2017
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  4. Bowser
    Slann

    Bowser Third Spawning

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    Khemrian Warsphinx can, and the tomb herald can resurrect 1 to each unit while planted.
     
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  5. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning Staff Member

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    Hmmm... ok. Doesn't matter much anyway, mixed Death it is then. :)
     
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  6. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    It happens i do. ;)

    Yeah, to run a certain allegeance, requires that ALL the models have the keyword of that Allegiance.
    In the case of Black Knights as battleline, to field Deathrattle Allegiance, a general could be the Wight King, or Krell (but this one doesn't have points in the general handbook)


    You use them in armies with Death Allegiance. They have the keyword Death.


    Nope, sorry


    It depends, I tend to favor terrorgheist. Death shriek is nice, but it's also true that i support it with screaming skull catapult.



    All 3 mortarchs are nice, but they come with different abilities.
    Arkhan is made for a strong magic army, and you are using just a necromancer.

    Warriors and Grave guards are good, but they need support, and I don't see it. A Vampire Lord as general would offer great boosts, the wight king is useful staying near your skeleton hordes with the infernal standard, and for this task he doesn't need to be the general.
    You cannot use black knight as battleline because of the necromancer and Arkhan


    Same as before: no Deathrattle Allegiance, so you need a different battleline.
    Skeleton horsemen from Tomb Kings? 5 are 100 pts and it would fit in 1000
     
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  7. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning Staff Member

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    Hmmmm actually just from reading the warscrolls I thought the Necromancer's Danse Macabre Spell and the Wight King's command ability would offer pretty good support for the Skellies....
    Well, back to the drawing board I guess! :)

    Still trying to figure out what to do. My friend and I want to create an army from Nighthaunt and Deathrattle that could go halfway well together OR (for the fun) against each other, let's say 1000 points each.
    Any good ideas? We want to start from the Start Collecting boxes if that makes any sense.

    Edit: and no Vampires if possible. I don't like how their models look...
     
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  8. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning Staff Member

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    Also: what kind of Starter Boxes are those supposed to be? One doesn't contain a single hero and only a bit over 400 points (Malignants), and the other contains a hero that doesn't fit and only ten of those guys everyone wants to have 40 of?
    Damn as Seraphon players we are really spoiled....
     
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  9. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    They are good. It's just that wight King doesn't offer a meaningful command ability, while a Vampire Lord is a great general.

    I will think on it, but it really depends.
    Nighthaunts work well targetting the bravery of enemy's units, so it's fun to build a list with Mortis engine, a couple of Banshees and a screaming catapult. It doesn't work so well if that list goes against Deathrattle...

    Starting from the collecting box, you'll have Spirit Hosts (which are a GREAT unit, but i would recommend a group of 6, especially if buffed by Vlad von Carstein) and Hexwraiths (another useful unit, truly strong objective grabbers). You need to support them with mystic shield, to exploit that sweet immunity to rend.
     
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  10. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning Staff Member

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    Oh man, that Mannfred guy isn't that bad. But he looks really bad compared to Arkhan...

    I already have three spirit hosts, and the Starter Box has another three. So let's see....

    If we used a Starter Box Malignants, 3 additional Spirit Hosts and Arkhan from the other Box we get this:


    Allegiance: Death

    Leaders
    Arkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (340)

    Battleline
    3 x Spirit Hosts (120)
    - Nighthaunt Battleline
    3 x Spirit Hosts (120)
    - Nighthaunt Battleline

    Units
    5 x Hexwraiths (160)

    Behemoths
    Mortis Engine (180)

    Total: 920/1000


    EDIT: maybe a Cairn Wraith could be cool? Beautiful model. Would put the list near 1000.
    EDIT 2: And/or a Tomb Banshee??

    Would that work halfway decently? Arkhan looks like he might be able to buff them quite well and in turn profit from the Morris Engine.

    ...which of course makes the other side of the equation (Deathrattle) much worse. Let's see...
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2017
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  11. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning Staff Member

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    Ok I just looked again to see if I could mayyybe stand looking at a Vampire.
    ...I..I cant. If I kitbash his helmet close I might accept the one on the dragon, but the other ones are just horrible.
     
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  12. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning Staff Member

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    Ok this is actually 1200 points, but could that work?


    Allegiance: Death

    Leaders
    Wight King with Baleful Tomb Blade (120)
    Necromancer (120)
    Vampire Lord On Zombie Dragon (440)
    - General
    - Deathlance

    Battleline
    5 x Black Knights (120)
    40 x Skeleton Warriors (320)
    - Ancient Spear & Shield
    10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)
    - Ancient Blades

    Total: 1200/1000

    EDIT: maybe just use a few less Skellies for the start. And I'll order some Mantic ones and see whether they work. We will never play Death at the GW store so it won't matter.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2017
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  13. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    Banshee is cool, and even cairn wraith if you fight hordes, but you cannot use Spirit Hosts as Battleline, cause not all your units are nighthaunt.
    Yeah, not even the Mortis Engine (don't ask why).

    Of all the possible allegiances of Death Faction, Nighthaunt is the one that needs more desperately something new.
    Unless you use a Mourngul.

    At that point, for a pure Nighthaunt Allegiance (1000 pts):

    Banshee (general, ruler of the night, cursed book) - 80.
    Mourngul (400)
    6 Spirit Hosts (battleline - 240)
    3 Spirit Host (battleline - 120)
    5 x Hexwraiths (160)

    Stick the Banshee near the mourngul, go against big targets and slay'em all, while hexwraiths and SH take objectives.
    It requires the same tactic as parking with a Sherman tank.
     
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  14. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning Staff Member

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    Argh I guess we will probably just have to ignore that damn battleline rule.... :(
    For combined games the Deathrattle will have to bring the Battlelines and the Nighthaunts will be the Elite hitters.
     
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  15. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning Staff Member

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    For those who have a Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon:
    Do you think it is possible to just magnetize that guy, and optionally play him as a Vampire Lord on foot? I mean: I don't care much if his pose looks slightly weird, still better than those laughable looks the other Vampires have.

    At least that guy has an almost full helmet. The Necromancer's face is bad enough, no need for another cheesy vampire grimace.
     
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  16. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning Staff Member

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    Also I HAVE to try those Mantic Skeletons! They sell an army of 40 Skellies for 28€ ?? Holy crap!
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2017
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  17. Crowsfoot
    Slann

    Crowsfoot Guardian of Paints Staff Member

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    Yeah they are cheap but just be aware they are smaller and you want a good quality glue to put them together.
     
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  18. Crowsfoot
    Slann

    Crowsfoot Guardian of Paints Staff Member

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    I put Manfred on mine so you could easily magnetize him but what I would do is split him at the waist and have a set of legs for the mount and a set for on foot.

    vamp.png
     
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  19. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning Staff Member

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    Hmmm.... I guess I could do that then.

    The thing is that I like the Command ability of the Vampire Lord on foot better.

    But wait...
    I just noticed that the "Blood Feast" command ability is the same as the Wight King's "Lord of Bones", except that the latter only applies for Deathrattle (which I intend it to use for anyway). So @Killer Angel I don't really understand this part of your post:
    Why that is so much worse (for an army that uses mainly Deathrattle that is, I understand that when mixed it isn't that good). Could you clarify that for me? I am not sure what I am missing.
     
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  20. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    Sure! :)

    Vampire Lord. Command Ability: "Blood Feast".
    If your general is a VL, you can use the ability: pick a Death unit within 15". Models in that unit make one extra attack with each of their melee weapons until your next hero phase.

    Wight King. Command Ability: none
    If your general is a Wight King, you can just use Inspiring Presence. Not bad on a unit of 40 skellies, but there's no match if you compare it to Blood Feast.
    What's truly good of the WK is the Infernal Standard, but you don't need to set the WK as general, to use it.
     
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