8th Ed. a HE lore atribute question

[THE_LAIR]

hi guys, i was hoping you could clear this out for me.

An army with a lvl4 highmagic and a lvl2 shadow is u-in its magic phase..
The lvl4 gets 3 spells off.. then the lvl2 gets a spell off.. and uses smoke and mirrors to change positions with the lvl4 highmage. Wich unit now gets the 4+ ward ?? the original lvl4's unit or the new lvl4's unit ? (or both)

thanks in advance!!

 

[Arli]

I would assume that the ward save follows the caster who generates the save. So the unit that has the shadow mage in it, does not benefit from the save.

 

[Stonecutter]

The wording in the lore attribute states that the ward save benefits "the caster and his unit", making it appear as though both the caster and the unit are targets of the lore attribute (similar to wording in the lore of life, earthblood). This wording creates a problem (or great bonus if you are a HE) when taken with page 97 and the general FAQ covering wizards/characters leaving units. As per page 97, if the unit is the target of the spell, it retains the benefit/suffers the effects and thus any character joining it would also benefit/suffer effects. When the character is the target, the benefit/suffering of an effect follows them to a new unit. The FAQ confirms the latter point. Now, since both the high magic wizard and the original unit are both "targets" of the lore attribute, it would appear that everyone would end up with the improved +3 to their ward save!!

 

[rychek]

Ouch. I hope they FAQ that one quick. That is not a conversation I would want to have with an opponent, no matter which army I was using at the time.

 

[THE_LAIR]

since both the high magic wizard and the original unit are both "targets" of the lore attribute, it would appear that everyone would end up with the improved +3 to their ward save!!

meaning both the lvl4 caster and the original unit get the ward save, but not the new unit or the shadow mage?

 

[Stonecutter]

since both the high magic wizard and the original unit are both "targets" of the lore attribute, it would appear that everyone would end up with the improved +3 to their ward save!!

meaning both the lvl4 caster and the original unit get the ward save, but not the new unit or the shadow mage?

No, everyone might end up with the improved ward save depending on how this is interpreted - i.e. original unit, new unit mirrored into too, 4th level & the shadow mage to boot!! The rules indicate that the character under the influence of a spell bestows it on their unit while a unit under the influence of a spell bestows it on any character joining it. This is the key complication and depends on whether or not one views the attribute as targeting both the wizard and the original unit rather than just one or the other.

 

[THE_LAIR]

ok, tanks for the grounded reply!, but until it gets FAQ'ed my HE buddy can just spread his wardsaves thrue shadow magic and caracterswopping then..

the low casting value of the high magic lore added to the +1 to cast really makes a slannless list eat spells..
I'll just have to go magic defence to prevent him from doing that stuff i guess.

do you guy's have anny general tips for preventing this. without havving to focus on the shadow mage, leaving the high mage to do his thing ?

 

[Stonecutter]

In terms of dealing with this, the key is always selective assassination. Suicide charges into a unit with a wizard might work, depending on the unit (i.e. spears yes, WL or SMs likely not). A scar vet cowboy with piranha blade, bane head or other trickster's shard might do the trick. Tactically, it is a matter of letting certainly spells go and stopping only the shadow casting so that no transfer can take place if it is essential that one of the units not gain a ward save (i.e. you are about to fight in combat or flame it with sallies).

 

[rychek]

Get to know High Magic so you know which spells you can afford to let through. Those spells can be pretty nasty....