i have read on the forum that you should give a slan banner of disciplin to make his inspiring presence ld 10 but the banner of disciplin says you may not use the generals inspiring presence, am i reading it wrong, how does it work?
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8th Ed. Banner of disciplin
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Razordon
BEEGfrog
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If you read the rule carefully then the unit with the banner cannot use the general's inspiring presence. However, if the general is in the unit with the banner, then the unit can use the leadership of the model with the highest Ld characteristic (the slann) without using the inspiring presence rule.
The inspiring presence rule allows units to use the general's Ld when he isn't in the unit, as the general IS in the unit with banner then you can use his Ld without using the rule.
The inspiring presence rule allows units to use the general's Ld when he isn't in the unit, as the general IS in the unit with banner then you can use his Ld without using the rule.
Ripperdactyl
kroxigor01
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I always thought this was one of the more naughty magic items (along with the Pidgeon Plucker's Pendant, alluding to Pheasant Pluckers...).
Technically yes a Slann that is both the BSB and a general can get around the wording of the Banner of Discipline. Other armies can achieve this by putting their general in the unit with the banner (or in the same unit as a character bearing the banner).
However IMO it is very nearly rules abuse and barely helps any way (LD9, stubborn, cold blooded with a reroll is pretty much good enough).
Technically yes a Slann that is both the BSB and a general can get around the wording of the Banner of Discipline. Other armies can achieve this by putting their general in the unit with the banner (or in the same unit as a character bearing the banner).
However IMO it is very nearly rules abuse and barely helps any way (LD9, stubborn, cold blooded with a reroll is pretty much good enough).
Terradon
Gor-rok
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Right from the current Games Workshop FAQ:
Magic Items
Q: If the General is in a unit with the Standard of Discipline
will he gain +1 Leadership and then be able to pass it onto his unit
(because he is in it) as well as other units in range of the Inspiring
Presence special rule? (Reference)
A: Yes.
Nothing abusive about it, so go for it with a clear conscience.
Magic Items
Q: If the General is in a unit with the Standard of Discipline
will he gain +1 Leadership and then be able to pass it onto his unit
(because he is in it) as well as other units in range of the Inspiring
Presence special rule? (Reference)
A: Yes.
Nothing abusive about it, so go for it with a clear conscience.
Ripperdactyl
kroxigor01
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Abusive and illegal are not the same thing. Teclis supported by a Banner of Sorcery is legal. A unit of 40 Chaos Chosen with all the bells and whistles (80% chance of having a 3+ ward save by turn 2) is legal. Dwarfs with 3 auto-hit S4/5 grudge throwers hiding behind a n effectively unbreakable block of 100 rangers is legal. Hellpit Abominations are legal.
Legal =/= Go for it with a clear conscience
The Banner of Discipline/General combination has made some people I know angry when they face it, their arguement being "so for 15 points your general gets LD10? After he ALREADY had coldblooded?!". You have to admit, it is bit too points effectivent for the advantage it gives and I highly doubt that the person doing the costing of the item suspected it would be FAQed in this way.
Legal =/= Go for it with a clear conscience
The Banner of Discipline/General combination has made some people I know angry when they face it, their arguement being "so for 15 points your general gets LD10? After he ALREADY had coldblooded?!". You have to admit, it is bit too points effectivent for the advantage it gives and I highly doubt that the person doing the costing of the item suspected it would be FAQed in this way.
Ripperdactyl
kroxigor01
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Its not, I was making a point.HoverBoy said:
Chameleon Skink
TheRolfgar
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While the chance is extremely low to fail LD9 twice....if you fail and flee, regardless of being caught the Slann dies for being the BSB. Its a cheap banner, I see no reason to not take it if you have the points. On top of that, you assume you will be at your full LD you could always have a hex on you reducing your LD.
Terradon
Gor-rok
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In relation to the Illegal vs Abusive discussion:
It's not so much whether or not the Standard of Discipline + Cold Blooded general is overpowered. It is whether or not rules are being bent, misused, or otherwise taken out of context for the sake of gaining an unfair advantage.
In the case of the Tzeench Chosenstar, this is just the case. They deliberately take a terror banner to invalidate two additional results on their power-up chart, and use another 5 point item to shift the roll onto these invalid choices so they can re-roll the outcome until they get what power they want. GW makes some strange decisions, but I won't believe five minutes of re-rolling dice before every game and during each Warshrine activation is what anyone intended.
In the case of the leadership banner, however, the official FAQ clearly spells out how GW wants the rule to be played. Anyone can read the FAQ, and anyone can put the item in their general's unit. Thus:
On the subject of overpowered, try this everyone. Let your opponents choose which one item or ability to cross off your Slann before each game: Focused Rumination, Cupped Hands, or the Standard of Discipline.
It's not so much whether or not the Standard of Discipline + Cold Blooded general is overpowered. It is whether or not rules are being bent, misused, or otherwise taken out of context for the sake of gaining an unfair advantage.
In the case of the Tzeench Chosenstar, this is just the case. They deliberately take a terror banner to invalidate two additional results on their power-up chart, and use another 5 point item to shift the roll onto these invalid choices so they can re-roll the outcome until they get what power they want. GW makes some strange decisions, but I won't believe five minutes of re-rolling dice before every game and during each Warshrine activation is what anyone intended.
In the case of the leadership banner, however, the official FAQ clearly spells out how GW wants the rule to be played. Anyone can read the FAQ, and anyone can put the item in their general's unit. Thus:
andkroxigor01 said:
are sentiments I disagree with.kroxigor01 said:
On the subject of overpowered, try this everyone. Let your opponents choose which one item or ability to cross off your Slann before each game: Focused Rumination, Cupped Hands, or the Standard of Discipline.
Chameleon Skink
TheRolfgar
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Gor-rok said:
So true! I'd love them to choose the banner if we were using those rules.